An essay from Thom Yorke

[kosmo vinyl]

Originally posted by Rhett Miller:
  I think the problem is when the loyal subjects of said musicians take the word of their idols to be the end all and be all on whatever subject. As if Mr. Musician somehow has some inside track on information and the workings of the world.

or have no clue what a band politics are... i.e. rage against the machine and the zapitistas

[mankie]

The thing that annoys me the most is when they start preaching their beliefs during their performances....If I wanted to be at a political rally I'd go to one, just shut the fuck up and do what I've paid to see you do.
 
 The only exception would be Billy Bragg because that's his whole thing, and people know that when they buy the ticket.... well, it was before Wilco made him shite.
 
 If someone wants to put it in their lyrics then that's entirely up to them, if you think they're talking a load of crap...like eminem, you just don't buy it. To dribble on about it during a concert is entirely different.

[thirsty moore]

The only exception?  Man, I didn't realize how dated you were!

[Celeste]

Originally posted by mankie:
  The thing that annoys me the most is when they start preaching their beliefs during their performances....

I agree...and they all seem to just think the same thing...we hate Bush, he's so lame...blah blah blah...yeah, we all know he's lame...why do they have to sully our evening with political crap (Rhett Miller did this at Bumbershoot)

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by bunnyman:
  Why shouldn't musicians have the right to say what they think?  You got a voice? Use it.  Eminem uses his in his music, and we are subjected to his crap.  Thom Yorke wants to say something with a bit of insight and thought about his opinion and he should shut up?  Give me a break.  Bono, Bob Geldof, Chrissie Hynde, etc. have come out to speak up for people (or in Chrissie's case, animals) that don't have a voice.  Good for them.

YEAH! no matter who you are yuo should be allowed to say what you want.  The only thing i dont like is when you have to do it in the middle of a concert.  If i want to hear Bono, or Thom or whoever, thats fine, but dont make me listen to it at a concert.  Thats all i ask.  and if you do, at least keep it semi positive!

[Fico]

Originally posted by mankie:
 
 The only exception would be Billy Bragg because that's his whole thing, and people know that when they buy the ticket.... well, it was before Wilco made him shite.
 

I thought he went shit after the Red Wedge fiasco... and Markie's picture.

[ggw]

Originally posted by bunnyman:
  Why shouldn't musicians have the right to say what they think?  You got a voice? Use it.  Eminem uses his in his music, and we are subjected to his crap.  Thom Yorke wants to say something with a bit of insight and thought about his opinion and he should shut up?  Give me a break.  Bono, Bob Geldof, Chrissie Hynde, etc. have come out to speak up for people (or in Chrissie's case, animals) that don't have a voice.  Good for them.

I agree to a large extent.
 
 Yorke's piece is pretty crappy though.  One can construct a pretty good argument against the practices of the EU, the US, and the WTO.  But you wouldn't know it from reading Yorke's "hipster with a heart" screed.
 
 Too bad he squandered this opportunity by writing a completely emotional response rather than constructing an argument on facts and logic.  People will now believe "free-trade is bad because Thom Yorke told me so."

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 

Too bad he squandered this opportunity by writing a completely emotional response rather than constructing an argument on facts and logic.  People will now believe "free-trade is bad because Thom Yorke told me so." [/b]

perhaps the fact is , sheer facts and logic dont always put the same spin on things as human emotion.  One could get a point across by listing names numbers and events, true.  But its not the only way. words, pictures, and music, can also get ones point across.  and isnt that what he's been doing best for 10 years?
   
   doesnt make his arguement/point any more or less powerful.

[ggw]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  doesnt make his arguement/point any more or less powerful.

Yes it does.
 
 If you can't cite specific examples of how the practices of the WTO and the western nations are abusing "free-trade" to the detriment of the LDCs, then there is a good chance your just parroting some crap you heard.
 
 Same if somebody argues for free-trade based on notions of fairness and community, but can't offer up any facts or logic to support the idea that free-trade is beneficial to all parties involved.
 
 When we discussed the "murder capital" you offered up an article to back up your point.  That's far more convincing than if you had simply said, "D.C. has been tragically torn asunder by the heartbreak of rampant gun violence."

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 

When we discussed the "murder capital" you offered up an article to back up your point.  That's far more convincing than if you had simply said, "D.C. has been tragically torn asunder by the heartbreak of rampant gun violence." [/b]

Well i think that is because this board is the fact arguing based group.  I post the article because if i dont have facts, everyone here shoots me down..BUT an emotional response can trigger a lot in a persons brain to sway thier opinion on something. And some people are more convinced they are doing the right thing when thier heart feels good, and not thier head so much.  its just different people.  Besides, this essay seemed to be more "this is whats on my mind" then a formal complaint to the WTO. Its all in the way you look at it.

[ggw]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
 Well i think that is because this board is the fact arguing based group.  I post the article because if i dont have facts, everyone here shoots me down..BUT an emotional response can trigger a lot in a persons brain to sway thier opinion on something. And some people are more convinced they are doing the right thing when thier heart feels good, and not thier head so much.  its just different people.  Besides, this essay seemed to be more "this is whats on my mind" then a formal complaint to the WTO. Its all in the way you look at it.

When Hitler convinced his countrymen that the Jews were evil and were to blame for the poor fortunes of Germany, it was a wonderful day for the supremacy of emotional arguments over facts and logic.
 
 When Slobodan Milosevic preached to his Serbian brethren that the dirty Croats and Moslems were undermining the goodness of the Serbian nation, he was likewise appealing to emotion.
 
 Unless you're talking about music or the like, an intellectually-based argument is superior to an emotionally-based one.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 

When Hitler convinced his countrymen that the Jews were evil and were to blame for the poor fortunes of Germany, it was a wonderful day for the supremacy of emotional arguments over facts and logic.
 
 When Slobodan Milosevic preached to his Serbian brethren that the dirty Croats and Moslems were undermining the goodness of the Serbian nation, he was likewise appealing to emotion.
 
 Unless you're talking about music or the like, an intellectually-based argument is superior to an emotionally-based one. [/b]

whatever.

[sonickteam2]

life should not be a bunch of people stating facts and numbers. thom was being human in his argument against what he feels is wrong.
   he stated so in the end.
 
   i am sure it was more well written than anything you couldve come up with.
 
   you watch too much CNN my brother.

[bearman🐻]

I love Radiohead, but just because Thom Yorke says something and gets it off his chest doesn't mean I agree or even like what he has to say. It's up to each and everyone of us to digest information, weigh pros and cons, find out more, and then make an educated decision based on what we know. That's the best any of us can do...but I certainly don't encourage people to jump on a bandwagon just because musicians are trying to convince them of something.

[ggw]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  life should not be a bunch of people stating facts and numbers. thom was being human in his argument against what he feels is wrong.
   he stated so in the end.
 
   i am sure it was more well written than anything you couldve come up with.
 
   you watch too much CNN my brother.

It's possible to do both, you know.  It's possible to be human while providing a logical explanation for your position.
 
 If one has to rely solely on emotion for their argument, then chances are there isn't any intelligent support for their argument.  Since there are some decent factual arguments for opposing the WTO and Yorke chooses not to use them, he has constructed a poor article.
 
 You spend to much time lighting candles on your Radiohead shrine my brother.