Things Smackie Thinks You Need to Know...

[godsshoeshine]

Originally posted by vansmack:
  I certainly wouldn't want to be Irish today.  There will be retribution in Europe for sure - it's not a good time to be asking for any favors from your neighbors.
 
 Irish Voters Appear to Reject Treaty on Europe
 
 It's absolutely ridiculous that (1) such a decision on governmental efficiency is left to the voters and (2) that it requires unanimous approval of 27 member countries.  Nothing will ever get done if those two requirements exist.

will it be ok to be irish in a week? or an american visiting ireland more specifically

[Venerable Bede]

Originally posted by vansmack:
  I certainly wouldn't want to be Irish today.  There will be retribution in Europe for sure - it's not a good time to be asking for any favors from your neighbors.
 
 Irish Voters Appear to Reject Treaty on Europe
 
 It's absolutely ridiculous that (1) such a decision on governmental efficiency is left to the voters and (2) that it requires unanimous approval of 27 member countries.  Nothing will ever get done if those two requirements exist.

the eu needs to be slapped around every so often to be reminded that brussels is not the end all-be all of power.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  the eu needs to be slapped around every so often to be reminded that brussels is not the end all-be all of power.

That's what happened in 2005.  Why do it again in 2008?

[vansmack]

Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
  will it be ok to be an american visiting ireland more specifically

No.  But mostly because I'm jealous, not because of any foreign policy implications.

[brennser]

sheesh - talk about embarassing and talk about biting the hand that feeds    
 
 although as a Man U friend of mine just pointed out, "Cmon, this is a country who chose Mick McCarthy over Roy Keane, what do you expect"!!
 
 the gubmint failed to properly articulate their case, the center stayed home and a rainbow coalition of the usual crackpot leftys, loonies, papists and libertarians did the rest
 
 

Originally posted by vansmack:
  I certainly wouldn't want to be Irish today.  There will be retribution in Europe for sure - it's not a good time to be asking for any favors from your neighbors.
 
 Irish Voters Appear to Reject Treaty on Europe
 
 It's absolutely ridiculous that (1) such a decision on governmental efficiency is left to the voters and (2) that it requires unanimous approval of 27 member countries.  Nothing will ever get done if those two requirements exist.

[Venerable Bede]

Originally posted by vansmack:
   

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  the eu needs to be slapped around every so often to be reminded that brussels is not the end all-be all of power.

That's what happened in 2005.  Why do it again in 2008? [/b]

i guess they didn't learn. . .

[Venerable Bede]

Originally posted by brennser:
 
 the gubmint failed to properly articulate their case, the center stayed home and a rainbow coalition of the usual crackpot leftys, loonies, papists and libertarians did the rest
 

i guess it doesn't help when the pm who supports the measure can't even explain it himself.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  i guess they didn't learn. . .

Only you would argue that less than 1% of the population of Europe should have the power to impose it's will on the other 26 members.  
 
 Come to think of it, that doesn't sound like you at all.
 
 Just what are you arguing?

[brennser]

hes new - still learning how to do the job    
 
 

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
   

Originally posted by brennser:
 
 the gubmint failed to properly articulate their case, the center stayed home and a rainbow coalition of the usual crackpot leftys, loonies, papists and libertarians did the rest
 

i guess it doesn't help when the pm who supports the measure can't even explain it himself. [/b]

[Venerable Bede]

Originally posted by vansmack:
   

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  i guess they didn't learn. . .

Only you would argue that less than 1% of the population of Europe should have the power to impose it's will on the other 26 members.  
 
 Come to think of it, that doesn't sound like you at all.
 
 Just what are you arguing? [/b]

i just don't like the eu and its insane bureaucracy. . .so, any chance that it gets embarrassed (coupled with france taking over the "rotating" presidency and having to deal with this) makes me smile.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  i just don't like the eu and its insane bureaucracy. . .

The whole point of the treaty was to eliminate much of the bureaucracy, so you're not making sense (other than to make life hard for France, that makes perfect sense to me).

[Venerable Bede]

Originally posted by vansmack:
   

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  i just don't like the eu and its insane bureaucracy. . .

The whole point of the treaty was to eliminate much of the bureaucracy, so you're not making sense (other than to make life hard for France, that makes perfect sense to me). [/b]

but it just makes it more difficult for the eu. . .if this treaty made that much sense, it should have been easier to defend....i think i agree, in general, with a point you made earlier- a 287 page treaty should never have been put up for a general vote in the first place. . .either simplify it (ironically, since it's supposed to simplify the eu to begin with) for a public vote, or ram it through the various parliaments so the public doesn't have a chance to reject it.  the irish rules on this weren't just made up for this treaty- the negotiators knew that it would have to go before the voters, and in their smugness assumed that the people would just go along.
 
 anyway. . .whatever benefits the treaty entailed, having the eu have to scramble to figure out how to get out of this mess is enjoyable, to me, and having it be left to the french to do that makes it doubly so.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  whatever benefits the treaty entailed, having the eu have to scramble to figure out how to get out of this mess is enjoyable, to me

Even if that means throwing Ireland out of the EU?

[Venerable Bede]

Originally posted by vansmack:
   

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  whatever benefits the treaty entailed, having the eu have to scramble to figure out how to get out of this mess is enjoyable, to me

Even if that means throwing Ireland out of the EU? [/b]

ehhh, they'll figure something out.
 
 btw, what is england doing with it???

[vansmack]

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
  btw, what is england doing with it???

The usual.
 
 The Torries want a referendum (because they're not in power), Labor says there's no need (because they are in power), the general population says they'd like to vote for it but it doesn't rank very high on their priority list.  Fixing the National Team ranks higher.
 
 If England were smart (and by smart I mean do they really want Tony Blair to be the first President of Europe?), Parliament would vote on it and not put it up for referendum.  That's the only way Blair has a shot, seeing as how they already snubbed the currency.
 
 After seeing what Ireland did, I doubt you see a referendum.