Author Topic: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!  (Read 15849 times)

yinzer

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Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2006, 11:04:00 am »
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 The notion that hordes of people are "pushed out" by gentrification is largely a falsehood born of misplaced white guilt.  
i didn't know scott mcclellan posted here.  you cannot be serious.
 
 if you want to look at even more extreme cases than u st. look at what happens and has happened in nyc because there the real estate situation is always more extreme.  i can name you 10 neighborhoods and i will where people (white, black, asian, latino, etc.) have been pushed out of their neighborhoods b/c of high rent.  let's go: hell's kitchen, dumbo, lower east side, east village, williamsburg, tribeca, chinatown, large swaths of harlem, carroll gardens, the meatpacking district, astoria.  it's the story of new york.  it's good and it's bad, but it ceratinly exists.  look at san francisco.  seattle.
 
 go to this article from the 03.06.06 sunday times mag if you think gentrification is a myth:
 "Psst... Have You Heard About Bushwick?" there are, um, refereed journal articles and dissertations by the thousands on this topic to say the least.

ggw

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HoyaSaxa03

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Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2006, 11:13:00 am »
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Originally posted by MindCage:
 Neighborhood Association meetings are rather amusing sometimes. They wouldn't flat out say they were trying to shutdown every club that catered to "colored" people but funny how they keep targeting them.
so what would you say about Kili's, or that go-go club that used to be in the government building on 14th and U ... not being accusatory, just curious to hear your views on people trying to shut those clubs down because of repeated violent incidents
(o|o)

MindCage

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Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2006, 11:49:00 am »
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Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
 so what would you say about Kili's, or that go-go club that used to be in the government building on 14th and U ... not being accusatory, just curious to hear your views on people trying to shut those clubs down because of repeated violent incidents
Those were shutdown/targeted for multiple reasons. The violence didn't help defend the clubs' cases. 2K9/Kili's had always been a target since it opened. Anytime you cater to the "hip-hop" and "go-go" crowds you'll find people waiting for you to mess up just once.  Just like Between Friends (Now Cue Bar...btw anyone even been in there yet?). Look at Dream/LOVE...that place has had SO many problems and violations yet it continues to operate. I mean you've had police officers run down from underage patrons of Dream.  Why doesn't anyone want to shut this place down? Oh that's right..it's in NE away from anything residential (for now...)  I'm referring to bars like U-Turn (don't like the freaky people hanging outside Mondays and Thursdays), Republic Gardens, Bar Nun (who had to put up "Quiet Please" signs on Wallach (behind U St) when he wanted to increase the club space.) Why not target the Latinos that create a lot more noise DIRECTLY across from your street and pee on the side of Yums? Oh that's right, it's because Bar Nun has a lot more "colored" people attending the club than El Paradiso where the cops are parked out front every night of the week and are inside the club.  Hell they've even tried to go after The Black Cat when Dante wanted to move into the space that was occupied by The Cage.
 
 The people that moved in want nightlife, but they want it to be on their terms. No concert venues and no dance clubs. I wonder how many of these people write checks to Jim Graham.
 
 MindCage
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Jaguar

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Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2006, 12:14:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  The notion that hordes of people are "pushed out" by gentrification is largely a falsehood born of misplaced white guilt.
Oh, brother.     :roll:    Certainly true for a small pocket but that sounds a whole lot more like a reply from someone with hardcore neo-con guilt. However, I suspect you may be just pulling a Rhett and trying to get a rise out of us rather than making a real personal statement. But maybe I'm wrong.
 
 After reading through a lot of these posts, I think that many of us are really pretty much on the same page but gettiing lost in the details. Certainly $17 entrees are quite common everywhere and are on the low end of the excess that this article was highlighting. Personally, if what some of you are saying is true about Creme, it sounds to me like it's a much better value, all in all, than Ben's. (In my opinion, especially since I believe that Ben's isn't all that great of a value for the price.) It's just that the middle and lower classes who are gradually being pushed aside are not the ones who will be able to frequent a lot of these places enough to keep them all in business for all that long. Meaning, that a lot of them couldn't survive. Only several could continue to maintain an ongoing income to keep up with expenses. Here's where the well off can contribute to keep them in business. Just don't force everyone else out in the process by upping prices, values and taxes amongst the entire community.
 
 Whomever noted what has happened to Polly's hits the nail right on the head!!! Wouldn't be surprised if their prices raised not to keep up with the others but just to cover their ever increasing property taxes. The same basic reasons why DC can't hold onto decent record/cd stores.
 
 As far as one class of people being more 'interesting' than another, I can't really go along with that. Personally, I find the wealthier just as interesting. They just tend to stay more to themselves (or be tied up at work) which makes it much harder to get to know and enjoy their company. In some cases, I'd much rather have them as neighbors than a few of the others who I don't want to run into on a dark corner when I'm alone in the middle of the night.
 
 I suspect that a lot of those insanely over-priced condos are purchased by very well off people as investment properties to lease to well off students and young professionals moving into the city. Not all, of course. Either way, the average person can't afford to either lease or own such a place. It truly scares me as, yes, these are the going rates in many of these places and a very large majority of us can't ever think of owning property without some strange lucky piece of fate coming our way. Rents aren't far behind.
 
 Have to fully agree with those who mentioned those self-rightous asses who buy in such areas only to bitch about noise, etc.. The same thing happened many years ago in Fells Point but on a much lower class scale. Even dumber, we had the same bitch by idiots who purchased homes right next to BWI airport! Christ, the airport was there first!!! WTF did they expect!?!?!?
#609

ggw

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Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2006, 12:18:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Jaguar:
  Oh, brother.    :roll:   Certainly true for a small pocket but that sounds a whole lot more like a reply from someone with hardcore neo-con guilt. However, I suspect you may be just pulling a Rhett and trying to get a rise out of us rather than making a real personal statement. But maybe I'm wrong.
 
The poor stay put
 
 Freeman and Vigdor say gentrification has gotten a bad rap. When they studied New York City and Boston, respectively, they found that poor and less educated residents of gentrifying neighborhoods actually moved less often than people in other neighborhoods â?? 20% less in New York.

Jaguar

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Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2006, 12:30:00 pm »
So, apparently, it's the middle class who continue to get screwed. Too well off (by goverment standards) for public assistance and too poor for gentrified living.
#609

yinzer

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Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2006, 12:49:00 pm »
exactly correct jaguar and believe me the gentlemen from columbia understand your point.  the facts, as the professors present them, are interesting regarding poor people though.
 
 the mcpaper article's explanations as to how it people "hold on" to their apartments make me wonder whether i should laugh or cry.
 
 To wit:
 
 Homeownership. - "just go buy a house"
 
 Rent control. - "just live in a building built before 1950 with 5 or more floors without an elevator (or whatever the similar specifics are with nyc's rent control laws).  you'll probably need to be, well, 82 years old or so."
 
 Government subsidies - "be really poor"
 
 Doubling (or tripling) up. - "move in with 10-15 of your closest drinking buddies"
 
 Landlord-tenant understandings. - "further cultivate your slave/master relationship with your landlord"
 
 More income devoted to rent. - "exactly.  pay way more rent.  learn to love and accept it."
 
 Prayer. - "faith-based housing initiatives coming from a bush administration HUD to a neighborhood near you."  word up!
 
 THANK YOU USA TODAY.  it's not just for pet parakeet droppings anymore.

Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2006, 01:37:00 pm »
Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets.

ledererk

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Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2006, 02:09:00 pm »
"Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets."
 
 Yeah, but what are you gonna do, just sit in your barren new home and stare at the walls?  I'd rather rent and have all the beer and music I want.

Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2006, 02:15:00 pm »
Nah, you're going to sit out on your deck or your new leather sofa and work on your $12 12 pack of imports and listen to your lifetime collection of good music. Or have sex or something. Why must life revolve around spending time and money in bars and nightclubs?
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by kled:
  "Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets."
 
 Yeah, but what are you gonna do, just sit in your barren new home and stare at the walls?  I'd rather rent and have all the beer and music I want.

HoyaSaxa03

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Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #56 on: April 18, 2006, 02:16:00 pm »
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Originally posted by Charlie Nakajima, Fired by Mascis:
  Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets.
what would we ever do without your lessons in frugality?  how many years in a row have you gone to bumbershoot?
(o|o)

Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2006, 02:20:00 pm »
I guess you'd have to go to school to become some sort of big bucks lawyer so that you could spend freely and not have to worry about it.
 
    We've been to Bumbershoot three of the past five or six festivals, but never two in a row. Every plane ticket was purchased with frequent flier miles, and my brother's Seattle address provided for the lodging. And tickets were maybe $18/day.
 
    Next question?
 
 
   
Quote
Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Charlie Nakajima, Fired by Mascis:
  Actually, it's not that hard to become a homeowner, if you're willing to go without $17 pork chops, $7 Yuenglings, and $40 concert tickets.
what would we ever do without your lessons in frugality?  how many years in a row have you gone to bumbershoot? [/b]

ledererk

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Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #58 on: April 18, 2006, 02:40:00 pm »
But what if I'm young, not married, and want to be out around people rather than sequestered in my house on my deck, regardless of how nice a deck it may be?  Same reason I choose to live in the city rather than suburbs - it's just easier to go out and meet people.  I know the suburbs are cheaper.  But I choose the lifestyle.

Re: Uh, Oh. Here Come The Tourists!
« Reply #59 on: April 18, 2006, 02:48:00 pm »
That's your choice. I was addressing people who complain about the high cost of buying a house, but aren't willing to make financial decisions and sacrafices that would allow them to do so. So I wasn't addressing my comments to you.
 
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by kled:
  But what if I'm young, not married, and want to be out around people rather than sequestered in my house on my deck, regardless of how nice a deck it may be?  Same reason I choose to live in the city rather than suburbs - it's just easier to go out and meet people.  I know the suburbs are cheaper.  But I choose the lifestyle.