Last Great Debut Album?

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

If it was the mid-90's and it wasn't country/alt-country, I probably didn't hear it.
 
 

Originally posted by Julian, faux celeb-porn CONNOISSEUR:
   

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
  I had to google that one.

:eek:  
 
 Wow. That's so underground. [/b]

[vansmack]

Originally posted by TheDirector217:
  There wasn't anything particularly influential about Tragic Kingdom.  Sublime & 311 were already running with the "ska thing" that exploded in the mid-90s.  

I'll make a deal with you:  I won't lecture you on rap and hip-hop if you promise to not give any more lectures on Mid-90's ska.  Mid-90's ska for the rest of America was late 80's for the fine folks in So Cal, and yes, while it was pinched from Marley and the Specials from the late 70's early 80's UK revival, it's evident by your inclusion of 311 in the same conversation as No Doubt and Sublime that you're way out of your league.  Fishbone, I would have given you, but 311 is unforgivable.  Love it or hate it, No Doubt are credited with bringing Ska to the 90's mainstream music scene, not 311 or Sublime.

[TheDirector217]

Originally posted by Mobius:
  Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die   defined the era and influenced all who followed
 
 
 The Stone Roses  - defined the era and influenced all who followed

Already named Ready To Die, but love that you mentioned it nonetheless.

[Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface]

Originally posted by miss pretentious:
  but you said you had never listened to it.

I know, I haven't bought out the time to listen to it yet from my busy schedule of blogging about german techno, deriding tinymixtapes for selling out, and working with my band VC++ Build 3.12a on our debut ghost-rock record.
 
 But I trust from a cursory glance at the tracklisting and a mashup set I saw once that it's fairly ironic.

[eltee]

Originally posted by miss pretentious:
   

Originally posted by Julian, faux celeb-porn CONNOISSEUR:
   

Originally posted by miss pretentious:
 it's an honest question though. like, did you just get it as a gift and keep it for giggles? or did you actually purchase it because you felt it would look good as part of a collection? or what?

Well, there's some music that people listen to because it appeals to the auditory sense. And then there's some music people listen to because it appeals to the ironic senses. [/b]

but you said you had never listened to it. [/b]

How ironic!?  :roll:  
 
 311? influence? I thought Page 1 made this the worst thread ever this week.
 
 nkotb - Your criteria was good, thanks for trying, but it's a tough one. I'd probably pick someone who warrants a RS cover in another 20 years, one that impacted most everyone. (Grr- Brain Walalace! [mis-sp. on purpose])

[6949]

Jagged Little Pill, Alanis Morissette
 
 Sadly it's been downhill for her since.

[bearman🐻]

Few debuts are as huge as Appetite, you will be hearing those songs on radio for a LONG time. If Zep still gets play, in another 20 years you will still be hearing "Paradise City" and "Sweet Child of Mine".
 
 I don't think anything remotely approaches that level, but as far as other debuts from the last 20 years, these are my own personal favorites, and I think they were influential in much smaller circles. But nothing can reach Appetite's enormous level.
 
    <img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000004V2.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg" alt=" - " />
 
    <img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000001F0H.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg" alt=" - " />
 
    <img src="http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/9220000/9224243.jpg" alt=" - " />
 
 and one that really probably didn't influence many but I still listen to ALL the time:
 
    <img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002HBA.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg" alt=" - " />

[TheDirector217]

Originally posted by vansmack:
     

Originally posted by TheDirector217:
  There wasn't anything particularly influential about Tragic Kingdom.  Sublime & 311 were already running with the "ska thing" that exploded in the mid-90s.  

I'll make a deal with you:  I won't lecture you on rap and hip-hop if you promise to not give any more lectures on Mid-90's ska.  Mid-90's ska for the rest of America was late 80's for the fine folks in So Cal, and yes, while it was pinched from Marley and the Specials from the late 70's early 80's UK revival, it's evident by your inclusion of 311 in the same conversation as No Doubt and Sublime that you're way out of your league.  Fishbone, I would have given you, but 311 is unforgivable.  Love it or hate it, No Doubt are credited with bringing Ska to the 90's mainstream music scene, not 311 or Sublime. [/b]

Dear Smackie,
 
 I didn't say either were great bands.  I am endorsing no one.  While it's obvious that So Cal was far ahead of the nation's ska curve, YOU must keep in mind that the nation was not NEARLY as cultured as you So Cal folk.  I am well aware of who The Specials are & their HEAVY influence on No Doubt as Tony & Gwen discussed that when they first blew.  But the average person back then & now has NO idea who The Specials are.  But the average person certainly did equate 311 & Sublime with ska.  The whole thing started to bubble above ground with "40 Oz. To Freedom" (1992).  "Smoke Two Joints" (Don't care for Sublime all that much, but love this song) has been SLAYING jukeboxes for 15 years now.  No Doubt hadn't "blown up" per se until my senior year, which was '95-'96.  Also if I remember, 311 was all over MTV before them as well.  Like it or not, that was back when MTV dictated what was hot or what wasn't.  311's movement started to bubble with Grassroots, which was in '94. Then that blue album which made you really made you hate them forever.  Both ahead of No Doubt's explosion as well.  Just saying . . .
 
 I don't tend to open my mouth if I don't know what I'm talking about.  I don't like to be wrong.  I have no issue admitting when I am, it just doesn't happen often.  You're still cool as a fan, though.        
 
 P.S. Do the Mighty Mighty Bosstones fit in this argument/convo?? Cause they were getting burn around that period as well.

[Mobius]

Originally posted by TheDirector217:
   

Originally posted by Mobius:
  Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die   defined the era and influenced all who followed
 
 
 The Stone Roses  - defined the era and influenced all who followed

Already named Ready To Die, but love that you mentioned it nonetheless. [/b]

A little emphasis doesn't hurt!  I'll add that I don't think Reasonable Doubt exists without Ready To Die (as Hot Fuss does not exist without Is This It)

[HoyaSaxa03]

<img src="http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NtzrWOjxL.jpg" alt=" - " />

[xneverwherex]

Originally posted by eros:
  I could also throw the Stone Roses record in there.  Even more interesting since they totally imploded after it.

i was thinking the same thing. and esp with all the bands they have influenced (esp as of late). if kasabian isnt the stone roses reincarnated, im not sure what is. Serge even has ian brown's ego!
 
 my own choice would have been bon jovi - slippery when wet - but its not their debut album, alas. (nor would it qualify as the last great...).

[TheDirector217]

Originally posted by Mobius:
   

Originally posted by TheDirector217:
   

Originally posted by Mobius:
  Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die   defined the era and influenced all who followed
 
 
 The Stone Roses  - defined the era and influenced all who followed

Already named Ready To Die, but love that you mentioned it nonetheless. [/b]

A little emphasis doesn't hurt!  I'll add that I don't think Reasonable Doubt exists without Ready To Die (as Hot Fuss does not exist without Is This It) [/b]

Not really.  Two different kinds of albums.  Reasonable was an introspective album dealing with the privileges, pitfalls & "psychoanalysis" of hustling if you will.  A new twist on what was at that time a tired subject.
 
 Ready To Die came from a place of desparation & hopelessness.  
 
 Hot Fuss was cool & all, but it wasn't a classic.  But under the criteria they did have a shitload of buzz, plus they were nice enough to create The Bravery.  Pause.
 
   :eek:

[vansmack]

Originally posted by TheDirector217:
  P.S. Do the Mighty Mighty Bosstones fit in this argument/convo, cause they were getting burn around that period as well.

I would put them on the list behind No doubt and Sublime, but way ahead of 311.  But MTV did not dictate what was cool for me, ever actually, but KROQ did for the majority of my formative years, and since you were not in So Cal then and had no access to KROQ, I'm giving you a pass a buying the first of many rounds in September - as soon as No Doubt comes on the jukebox that is.  Or Bad Fish, which is the best Sublime song.

[SalParadise]

Originally posted by BookerT:
   <img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/Dr.DreTheChronic.jpg" alt=" - " />

yup

[palahniukkubrick]

All of you keep mentioning albums that will forever be on "best of the decade" etc. lists but are not actually "great."
 
 I believe "a great album" in this sense isn't just an album that causes a 'stir,' although it helps if the album did, but an album that is a strong statement of both the band, the music at the time it was released, and maybe even something about society at the time of its release. Likewise, one should be able to pinpoint the influence the album had on, again, the band, the era's music, and society. It can't just be an album that brought about millions of copycat bands, it had to be one that shook up music as a whole.
 
 So Tragic Kingdom? No. Grace is out as well because the influence that album had isn't really existent. On Avery Island? Get the fuck outta here, Julian. The debuts of Oasis and Nirvana violate the rule that it can't just spawn ripoff bands, because the influence of those two isn't really felt on anything outside of the genres those bands belong to. This is why the Strokes are out too. What bands are influenced by the Strokes but don't sound like them?
 
 Therefore, the three albums previously mentioned that best fit the description of great above are  Slanted and Enchanted, Funeral, and, yes, Hot Fuss. Granted, arguments can be made against all three. But I guess that's kind of the point.
 
 BTW, I'd like to add DJ Shadow's Endtroducing.... to the discussion.