Donald Trump is a fascist

[Space Freely]

I won't.
They are.
Remember that one time he posted here that Sam Harris would make for a good president?
Here's this.

The "New Atheists" have been preaching the rhetoric you've been hearing from Trump for the last couple weeks since the Iraq war if not longer.
 

I will resist urge to point out that James Ford and Donald Trump seem like two peas in a pod...

I'm sorry if you're too blind to see the difference between Sam Harris and Donald Trump.

 That's kind of like saying Glen Greenwald is part of ISIS just because he's an Islamic apologist.

There's plenty of space in between a nutjob like Donald Trump and a nutjob like Glen Greenwald, and I think Sam Harris (and I) inhabit that space.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/vicious-and-misleading-atheist-bashing/

http://www.gspellchecker.com/2015/02/luke-savage-doubles-down-on-dishonest-hackery-lukewsavage/

[hutch]

I won't.
They are.
Remember that one time he posted here that Sam Harris would make for a good president?
Here's this.

The "New Atheists" have been preaching the rhetoric you've been hearing from Trump for the last couple weeks since the Iraq war if not longer.
 

I will resist urge to point out that James Ford and Donald Trump seem like two peas in a pod...

I'm sorry if you're too blind to see the difference between Sam Harris and Donald Trump.

 That's kind of like saying Glen Greenwald is part of ISIS just because he's an Islamic apologist.

There's plenty of space in between a nutjob like Donald Trump and a nutjob like Glen Greenwald, and I think Sam Harris (and I) inhabit that space.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/vicious-and-misleading-atheist-bashing/

http://www.gspellchecker.com/2015/02/luke-savage-doubles-down-on-dishonest-hackery-lukewsavage/

ok then speaking honestly and beyond the jokes I don't get your position... is it that there is a disproportionate amount of violent people or ass backwards people in the muslim world? if so, do you have position on what to do about it?

[Space Freely]

I won't.
They are.
Remember that one time he posted here that Sam Harris would make for a good president?
Here's this.

The "New Atheists" have been preaching the rhetoric you've been hearing from Trump for the last couple weeks since the Iraq war if not longer.
 

I will resist urge to point out that James Ford and Donald Trump seem like two peas in a pod...

I'm sorry if you're too blind to see the difference between Sam Harris and Donald Trump.

 That's kind of like saying Glen Greenwald is part of ISIS just because he's an Islamic apologist.

There's plenty of space in between a nutjob like Donald Trump and a nutjob like Glen Greenwald, and I think Sam Harris (and I) inhabit that space.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/vicious-and-misleading-atheist-bashing/

http://www.gspellchecker.com/2015/02/luke-savage-doubles-down-on-dishonest-hackery-lukewsavage/

ok then speaking honestly and beyond the jokes I don't get your position... is it that there is a disproportionate amount of violent people or ass backwards people in the muslim world? if so, do you have position on what to do about it?

I'm sure I could find articles and quotes that better summarize my view than I can. Admittedly, I'm not the best writer, and I'm on a short schedule today with little time for long political discussion...but in a nutshell:

My position is that there are a disproportionate number of conservative, anti-progressive people in the Muslim world...wiith views much more conservative and dangerous than the integrated, more secular Muslims who live her in the US (see http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/) This is due to people with power and money pushing a hardline version of the Koran that is antithetical to life in the Western World.

What is the solution? Working with secular and liberal Muslims and "ex-Muslims" who are still connected to the culture to push Islam toward a more progressive direction, a direction Christianity has already been pushed in Europe and the United States.

[Dejecty-hatch lııllı|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl]

Working with secular and liberal Muslims and "ex-Muslims" who are still connected to the culture to push Islam toward a more progressive direction

I know I'm being very foolish to put my foot in this...but...

I think that Sam Harris, Bill M and even Space have a point that keeps getting shrugged off as being a racist or a bigot.  People tend to quickly respond, but don't really address the issue they are trying to bring up and discuss seriously. (unlike Donald who is not trying to talk seriously about the issue)


I'm extremely liberal and Human Rights, Women's Rights and Freedom to practice your own religion are important to me.

These are things I really stand for and vehemently defend...might even don a army uniform to defend them (total pacifist though...so don't think they'd have me)


But there is a hard line of the Muslim world that believe these things are totally acceptable:
Genital Mutilation
Honor Killings
Forced marriage
Apostasy
People of Religion running courts and making decisions on someone's life on a book that is centauries old
Death penalties for Art or Sexual preference


I don't think you can have it both ways
I don't believe in freedom in religion if the religion holds those things as tenants

That we can happily look at those serious offenses and shrug them off...is being ignorant
and the Politically Correct crowd will not even let us have the converstaion

[Space Freely]

Trump talkers please forgive me for veering off thread slightly. In regard to Sam Harris, I think this piece sums it up pretty well. It also addresses much more eloquently and longwindedly, the question Hutch asked me.

Note: This is the full version of this interview, not the censored one that appeared in Salon.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/sam-harris-the-salon-interview

[ggw]

First of all a Gore administration would have taken the threat seriously and 9-11 might never have happened

Apparently you started your Thanksgiving heavy drinking and drug use a couple of days early.

[hutch]

First of all a Gore administration would have taken the threat seriously and 9-11 might never have happened

Apparently you started your Thanksgiving heavy drinking and drug use a couple of days early.

you can't prove it would have happened  but I can say it might not have happened.

why are you so sure??

personally I don't think it would have happened... I think a Gore administration would have taken the threat seriously..something that we know the Bush administration did not do.

Always amusing what a pass Bush gets on that... Trump has it 100% right.. He did not keep us safe.. 9-11 happened on his watch.

[ggw]

That shits crazier than anything Jaguar ever posted.  Are you seriously saying that if Al Gore was elected that 9-11 would not have happened?

[Relaxer]

You're making some powerful arguments here ggw

[ggw]

Why am I so sure? Because both Jamie Rubin and Ken Bacon told me so. 

[hutch]

That shits crazier than anything Jaguar ever posted.  Are you seriously saying that if Al Gore was elected that 9-11 would not have happened?

Lets try a third time: I'm saying it MIGHT not have happened... which is a fact.. it MIGHT not have happened..

As far as if you want to know my personal opinion- unfounded.. more gut instinct etc..- yes I think 9-11 would not have happened under an Al Gore presidency.. for starters the national security briefing provided during the transition would have bee taken seriously and not dismissed by the Bush folk....Moreover, the insane overreaction by Bush and his administration- hijacked by neocons- would not have happened either..no pointless war in Iraq.. no ISIS.. I could go on but I'm sure you have enough...

The public's failure to take into account that Bush failed us on 9-11 (and the days after where he disappeared, you know after the goat story and deer in headlights look.. you may not remember - perhaps you are too young- but Giuliani was virtual President for those critical days after 9-11 where everyone was freaking out.. the celebrated Bush bullhorn "moment" happened a few days after 9-11) AND to consider that the Iraq war is the direct cause of Daesh strains credulity but then again the American people have never been known for their brilliance and the number of wars they've been led into under false pretenses is astonishing (Vietnam, WWII, Spanish American War, etc etc.).. 

[azaghal1981]

Rhett James Charlie Ford Freely is a racist who mocks the disabled and...wait for it... so is trump.

Here's someone who can see making the (very valid) Harris/Trump comparison: http://youtu.be/IPMSwKbY5ms
And here's Noam Chomsky dismissing Sam Harris the way racists like him deserve to be dismissed.
OK I'm done derailing this thread.

I won't.
They are.
Remember that one time he posted here that Sam Harris would make for a good president?
Here's this.

The "New Atheists" have been preaching the rhetoric you've been hearing from Trump for the last couple weeks since the Iraq war if not longer.
 

I will resist urge to point out that James Ford and Donald Trump seem like two peas in a pod...

I'm sorry if you're too blind to see the difference between Sam Harris and Donald Trump.

 That's kind of like saying Glen Greenwald is part of ISIS just because he's an Islamic apologist.

There's plenty of space in between a nutjob like Donald Trump and a nutjob like Glen Greenwald, and I think Sam Harris (and I) inhabit that space.

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/vicious-and-misleading-atheist-bashing/

http://www.gspellchecker.com/2015/02/luke-savage-doubles-down-on-dishonest-hackery-lukewsavage/

[walk,on,by]

im not going to lie . . . I thought sam harris was one of those god awful crooners, like sam smith or ed sheeran.  so I looked him up, an lookie there, hes . . . aw, who cares who he is.

[Dejecty-hatch lııllı|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl]

OK I'm done derailing this thread.

not even close,
the thread was looking for derailment I think it's important to get ALL the opinions out there, like em or not
I'm not defending Spaett Ford-frelly, but don't recall disabled being on his shit-list

[Dejecty-hatch lııllı|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl]

And here's Noam Chomsky dismissing Sam Harris the way racists like him deserve to be dismissed.

btw that's f'n long and not sure it's as damning to SH considering he posted it on his site
It is actually a very interesting exchange