Shooting Kills Man Near Club In Shaw

[MindCage]

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer:
  Yes, I'm always hearing of shootings on the local news in PG County and DC, and it's always those goddamn white people doing all of the shooting.

The point was that to blame the club for something that didn't take place inside their establishment is a bit unfair and biased. The same thing could easily have happened on a night that say Chuck Brown was playing the 930 Club and someone ends up getting shot in the same area. Would the 930 Club then be getting threatened with being shutdown? Doubt it!
 
 MindCage
 Mindless Faith
 Deep6 Productions

[Bartelby]

The other point is that the 930 Club does not arbitrarily decide when or even IF to hire extra security for the back parking/etc. If it's a capacity crowd, and they know the demographics for that crowd may require it - they STAFF UP.  The stupid asses who make these decisions at Killi's decided NOT TO ADD EXTRA SECURITY - even tho they knew the Caribbean festival would attract almost 2,000 people - btw:  many of whom may have been DRINKING ALL DAY - and advertise an "after hours" environment. They DID NOT ADD EXTRA SECURITY. BAD DECISION. This whole issue, according to tv and newpapers reports, started inside over some chicks...Killi's management/ownership certainly SHOULD get some of the blame here.  According to reports, they made other stupid decisions in the past which have really pissed off the local residents.  I don't care what color the crowd/perps/victims/residents are:  The establishment is the primary reason this happened THERE.

[filthypit]

you can't blame the club owners for their patron's bad behavior (getting pissed & shooting each other).
 
 since you can't tell whether someone's armed & dangerous by how they look, it would be practically impossible to assign culpability...
 
 unless, of course, you blame their mama for neglecting to structure their early childhood so as to include social attachement(s) - and teach them right from wrong.

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

You can blame them for serving the alcohol which fueled the crime.
 
 

Originally posted by filthypit:
  you can't blame the club owners for their patron's bad behavior (getting pissed & shooting each other).
 
 since you can't tell whether someone's armed & dangerous by how they look, it would be practically impossible to assign culpability...
 
 unless, of course, you blame their mama for neglecting to structure their early childhood so as to include social attachement(s) - and teach them right from wrong.

[filthypit]

then let's reinstate prohibition!
 that'll teach the bastards to get tanked up and shoot one another!!!

[Bags]

Originally posted by filthypit:
  you can't blame the club owners for their patron's bad behavior (getting pissed & shooting each other).
 

I disagree...the 9:30 has such a stringent and visible anti-violence/underage drinking/nuisance policy, that I think Staff is a primary reason there are rarely problems at a club that hosts all kind of music nearly every night of the week.

[MindCage]

Originally posted by BadSushi:
  The other point is that the 930 Club does not arbitrarily decide when or even IF to hire extra security for the back parking/etc. If it's a capacity crowd, and they know the demographics for that crowd may require it - they STAFF UP.  The stupid asses who make these decisions at Killi's decided NOT TO ADD EXTRA SECURITY - even tho they knew the Caribbean festival would attract almost 2,000 people - btw:  many of whom may have been DRINKING ALL DAY - and advertise an "after hours" environment. They DID NOT ADD EXTRA SECURITY. BAD DECISION. This whole issue, according to tv and newpapers reports, started inside over some chicks...Killi's management/ownership certainly SHOULD get some of the blame here.  According to reports, they made other stupid decisions in the past which have really pissed off the local residents.  I don't care what color the crowd/perps/victims/residents are:  The establishment is the primary reason this happened THERE.

What blame should the club get? Seriously, you're talking out your ass. Regardless if the club had extra security, the problem occured outside it's establishment, like down the street from it, not in front of it's doors or even "common law" sidewalk property did it take place. So what if the patrons were at the club. You can staff up all you want, but what happens around the corner from the club isn't going to stop what happens.  Did they actually drink there? You don't know...they could have gotten tanked before showing up, maybe only paid a cover to get in. As you stated, people were drinking all day. So to blame a club that the alcohol fueled the fire is crap. The persons themselves are responsible for their actions and their actions only. People are so quick to point fingers as a scapegoat as to a problem just because they don't like ANY nightclub entertainment in the U St/Cardoza area. Why do you think they're trying to shutdown just about every one of them at the drop of a body (hat just wouldn't work here)
 
 A few years ago, a friend of mine was shot in the stomach after leaving a show at Nation while at a gas station. Should Nation be held liable because that's where he was before getting shot? Didn't think so...
 
 MindCage
 Mindless Faith
 Deep6 Productions

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

If you have a party at your house and someone gets loaded on booze and drives off and kills someone with their car, aren't you in part legally responsible for their actions? If so, how is this any different?
 
 

Originally posted by MindCage:
   

Originally posted by BadSushi:
  The other point is that the 930 Club does not arbitrarily decide when or even IF to hire extra security for the back parking/etc. If it's a capacity crowd, and they know the demographics for that crowd may require it - they STAFF UP.  The stupid asses who make these decisions at Killi's decided NOT TO ADD EXTRA SECURITY - even tho they knew the Caribbean festival would attract almost 2,000 people - btw:  many of whom may have been DRINKING ALL DAY - and advertise an "after hours" environment. They DID NOT ADD EXTRA SECURITY. BAD DECISION. This whole issue, according to tv and newpapers reports, started inside over some chicks...Killi's management/ownership certainly SHOULD get some of the blame here.  According to reports, they made other stupid decisions in the past which have really pissed off the local residents.  I don't care what color the crowd/perps/victims/residents are:  The establishment is the primary reason this happened THERE.

What blame should the club get? Seriously, you're talking out your ass. Regardless if the club had extra security, the problem occured outside it's establishment, like down the street from it, not in front of it's doors or even "common law" sidewalk property did it take place. So what if the patrons were at the club. You can staff up all you want, but what happens around the corner from the club isn't going to stop what happens.  Did they actually drink there? You don't know...they could have gotten tanked before showing up, maybe only paid a cover to get in. As you stated, people were drinking all day. So to blame a club that the alcohol fueled the fire is crap. The persons themselves are responsible for their actions and their actions only. People are so quick to point fingers as a scapegoat as to a problem just because they don't like ANY nightclub entertainment in the U St/Cardoza area. Why do you think they're trying to shutdown just about every one of them at the drop of a body (hat just wouldn't work here)
 
 A few years ago, a friend of mine was shot in the stomach after leaving a show at Nation while at a gas station. Should Nation be held liable because that's where he was before getting shot? Didn't think so...
 
 MindCage
 Mindless Faith
 Deep6 Productions [/b]

[HoyaSaxa03]

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer:
  If you have a party at your house and someone gets loaded on booze and drives off and kills someone with their car, aren't you in part legally responsible for their actions? If so, how is this any different?

i'm still waiting with baited breath for my first day of law school this fall, but yes, that's how i've understood the law ... same thing if you're a bartender who serves someone who is visibly drunk and they go kill someone in a DUI ... but of course laws like this differ from state to state ...

[Bartelby]

I don't think they're trying to close down every club in the U st corridor.  I think they're trying to close down clubs where PEOPLE GET FUC*ING KILLED after being inside.  There's a big difference between DEAD and cigarette butts and beer bottle lying around.  I drove by the Reeves building the night the guy was stabbed.  The fight was going on right by the front door, and people were standing around cheering like it was a fucking prize fight...yeah, real cool.  Oh, btw:  the undercover security hired by 930 DO STROLL AROUND A BIT...remember that when you're doin' your post-show doobie.

[Bartelby]

edit: undercover changed to "plain clothes"...

[filthypit]

i maintain - it's DEAD wrong to prosecute clubs/hosts when some surley asshole gets tanked up at their place and goes out and becomes violent....  behavior that's almost impossible to predict without venturing into profiling (which REALLY should be illegal).  
 these idiots who are trying to legislate everything (bike helmets, seatbelts, baggy trousers, etc) are just adding to the already overwhelmed judicial system w/ shit cases.
 
 
 in recent years i've found the security @ 9.30 to be random at best.  there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when they bring in extra goons.  
 
 and when they do hire extra goons, they don't seem to be interested in the actual trouble makers, they just hassle people whose looks they don't like.
 
 every now and then the lookouts up in the crow's nests DO point out an actual menace, but more often than not - their discretion is lacking.
 
 i guess i'm still pissed about that 16yr old fucktard @ the door who insisted i walk back to my car and get my license - when I AM CLEARLY OLD ENOUGH TO BE HIS FUCKING MOTHER!!!!!
 (and i had to pee REALLY bad)

[MindCage]

Originally posted by filthypit:
  in recent years i've found the security @ 9.30 to be random at best.  there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when they bring in extra goons.  
 
 and when they do hire extra goons, they don't seem to be interested in the actual trouble makers, they just hassle people whose looks they don't like.
 
 every now and then the lookouts up in the crow's nests DO point out an actual menace, but more often than not - their discretion is lacking.
 
 i guess i'm still pissed about that 16yr old fucktard @ the door who insisted i walk back to my car and get my license - when I AM CLEARLY OLD ENOUGH TO BE HIS FUCKING MOTHER!!!!!
 (and i had to pee REALLY bad)

For the record, 930 Club just doesn't bring in "extra goons" as you put it. They're all regularly staffed security, but sometimes they'll schedule more people on. So, these people do know what they're doing.  Just like any other job when you're going to have more people than expected, you'll bring in more people to cover all areas. Like Target or Giant does on a weekend...There is a method to Ed's madness  
 
 Hey, you could have gone in the club and been marked underage, gone and peed, then gone back out to your car to get your license if you had to go that bad. Then again, most people realize they're about to go into a club knowing they'll be checked for ID if they want to drink, and will have their ID on them, but hey that's just common sense talking...
 
 MindCage
 Mindless Faith
 Deep6 Productions

[Sir HC]

Originally posted by filthypit:
 in recent years i've found the security @ 9.30 to be random at best.  there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when they bring in extra goons.  
 
 and when they do hire extra goons, they don't seem to be interested in the actual trouble makers, they just hassle people whose looks they don't like.
 
 every now and then the lookouts up in the crow's nests DO point out an actual menace, but more often than not - their discretion is lacking.
 
 i guess i'm still pissed about that 16yr old fucktard @ the door who insisted i walk back to my car and get my license - when I AM CLEARLY OLD ENOUGH TO BE HIS FUCKING MOTHER!!!!!
 (and i had to pee REALLY bad)

I have a friend who at 18 looked 35.  They have to card if you wish to drink.  You could have said, mark me underage and peed.  If you are that old, why oh why would you ever leave your license in your car?  That just seems odd.
 
 As too "goons", I will let That Guy talk on it.

[thatguy]

Originally posted by filthypit:
  in recent years i've found the security @ 9.30 to be random at best.  there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when they bring in extra goons.

there are many different factors that go into the decision of how many people we need working on a given night.  presale, band requests, high maintenence crowds, potential for certain behaviors, etc.  it's far from random.  we never "hire extra" staph either.  we have a pool of staph that have all been through training and some work more than others.  if we need more help or someone's special skills, we go into our reserves, but never outside of our people.
 
 goons?  i hardly think that's an accurate descriptive word for the door staph.  take a look at the staph next time you're there.  we've got a fairly diverse mix of male and female, big and little, ugly and cute, etc.  i wouldn't consider any of them goons.  thugs and brutes, maybe.  not goons.
 
   

and when they do hire extra goons, they don't seem to be interested in the actual trouble makers, they just hassle people whose looks they don't like.  
 
 every now and then the lookouts up in the crow's nests DO point out an actual menace, but more often than not - their discretion is lacking.

please provide concrete examples.  nothing beginning with "i heard..." or "my friend saw..." or anything similar.  if you're going to accuse an entire staph of discrimination and profiling in a public space, you'd damn well better have something concrete to back it up.
 
 most of what the door staph does is invisible to the eyes of the crowd if we do it right.  quick and quiet interventions to resolve issues is our goal.  this is not always possible, but we try.
 
   

i guess i'm still pissed about that 16yr old fucktard @ the door who insisted i walk back to my car and get my license - when I AM CLEARLY OLD ENOUGH TO BE HIS FUCKING MOTHER!!!!!
 (and i had to pee REALLY bad)

there are no 16 year olds on the door staph.  you have to be at least 21 to do the job.  the person at the door (aren't insults a bit unnecessary, especially from someone old enough to be someone's mother?) was doing their job to protect our liquor liscense.  we are an all ages club that serves alcohol, so we have to be more careful than any other clubs.  the liqour law in dc states that you must have id on you to drink alcohol.  it's really that simple.  there are mulitple signs posted clearly outside the club reminding you that you need to have your id ready.  we would've gladly given you an underage stamp for the night, or even temporarily until you provided id.  your attitude and anger about this situation is totally unfounded, and directing it at a member of the staph doing their job is inappropriate.