Author Topic: Elliott Smith R.I.P.  (Read 17865 times)

ggw

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2003, 09:56:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Dupek Chopra:
  Sheb Wooley was more of a loss for me.
Who?

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2003, 10:00:00 am »

broadkat

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2003, 07:28:00 pm »
DISCLAIMER:  I DO NOT BELIEVE I HAVE THE TRUTH, ABSOLUTE OR OTHERWISE.  I DO NOT INTEND TO IMPLY THAT MY OPINIONS THAT I EXPRESS IN THIS POST ON THE NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE NATURE OF OTHERS' COMMENTS EXTEND TO THE ESSENCE OF THOSE PEOPLE'S PERSONALITIES.  I DO ASSUME THAT THERE IS EVEN ONE PERSON HERE WHO CARES VERY MUCH AT ALL WHAT MY OPINION IS.
 
 i guess maybe i don't fit in here but a lot of times you guys seem really mean.  i was, coincidentally, overdosing and then slicing up my arms with razors to the sounds of xo on the day elliot smith was stabbing himself.  
 
 it is just not as simple a question as that of the presence or nonpresence of  "willpower" you imply by saying he chose a coward's way out.  addiction to substance is one thing.  addiction to several substances and the obviously serious psychological pathology present in elliot smith is something to sympathize with him about, rage at GOD about, and then make your peace with.  but you don't betray his family and friends' pain by choosing to accept that you have not the background from which to say his choice was cowardly.
 
 maybe suicide is a coward's way out. i obviously don't know.  i don't want to be a coward.  but i bet neither do you and yet it seems quite cowardly to me to pretend you're some ubercool, ultra experienced gent on a website to feel better about yourself.  
 
 it seems similarly cowardly to me to call it the coward's way out because you still have unresolved feelings about your own suicide attempts.  if you've really been there and made the decision not to do it because of family and friends' pain, i can honestly say i've done something similar in my own circumstances and i applaud you.  im glad you're alive.  who's to say, however, that elliott wasn't on that precipice a billion times before.  somehow you've gotten help. maybe he had to make that choice everyday.  for whatever reason he was incapable of finding help compatible with his own situation.  exhaustion, intoxication, and long-standing depression are debilitating by themselves, let alone in some sort of combination.  Saying he was a coward seems at best a statement quite insensitive in its hastiness to assume surrounding circumstances.
 
 as far as suicide in general, taking pills to sleep forever, jumping off a building, perhaps these i would more lengthily consider before saying circumstance determined cowardliness.  stabbing yourself to death?  pause for a moment.  imagine that.  that is a moment saturated with existential meaning.  that's an action chosen, whether or not your inhibitions are debilitated by drugs or what have you, amidst a type of pain that reaches the kind of unconscious material spoken about by jung, freud, heidegger.  What was the significance to the makeup of the human consciousness of the japanese art of killing yourself to AVOID cowardice.  how the hell do we know?  
 
 i was in the hospital the day after elliott died explaining to my family and friends why i feel like i have no other choice than to bleed myself.  it's not, for me, at least, a once in a lifetime choice spurred by some horrific event or moment of despair.  it's an ongoing battle i fight with thoughts that i am desperately trying to master.  thoughts which are the impulse for often unbearably painful emotions.  the analogy to a faucet that i can turn on and off is far to simple for the choice i make when attempting suicide.  furthermore, it's a catch 22 dealing with those i love dearly and, perhaps contrary to popular belief, much more than myself in many cases.  after the bouts i've had with this situation, i still can't say that i can answer the question of whether my death or survival would least injur my family.  
 
 What truly is worse;
    the conglomerate of pain and anxiety, self-doubt and desperation, anger and frustration they've felt in seeing me struggle for 23+ years with addiction and depression, all the while knowing me well enough to know i'm not callous, that i do love them, and that it's mostly because my thinking is fucked up and so not being able to fully hate me and write me off, seeing the struggle i fight to turn off feelings and intelligence and yet feeling powerless to translate the resources to control these thoughts and feelings which come so easily to them to me,  seeing me vacillate between this totally helpless dependant woman and this hopeful competent woman who wants to help herself and heal the wounds she knows she's created so she can love them better and never knowing at which point the latter is truly in control so that they might breathe and say "she's alright"
 OR
 watching me make a morbid, horrible, disgusting choice that pains them to the extreme, and then having the freedom to decide for themselves whether it was right or wrong, and resolve themselves to it accordingly.  
 of course, of course, of course, i certainly wish the question never presented itself.  i've certainly tried my hardest to, at best, make it stop, or at least, keep my struggles from those i love.  it hasn't worked.  i recognize that my efforts, no matter how sincere and persistent make me no less definitively a sinner.  nevertheless, sinner is not synonymous with coward.
 
 that i connected in a real way with almost every piece elliot composed does not tell me how alike or different i am from elliott smith.  neither does it tell you.  But i can say this:  no one on a website who has read this, then heard my music, and then heard about my death would be in the position to make a statement so completely saturated with arrogance as "she took the coward's way out and is not the one who deserves sympathy."  Everyone effected by Elliot Smith's suicide deserves sympathy, no matter their choices or how you percieve their control over the matter.
 
 it may encourage some of you that i don't think i'll be coming on this 930 site for a while because i know everyone will either have mean things to say which pick apart little bits of this...treatise here i've written until it spirals out of logical control.  or worse, nothing at all will be said. regardless of all this, please remember that while the outcomes are rarely as well publicized, talented, kind, often reasonable people who suffer terribly from depression and addiction everywhere you are.  this includes internet fora.  while opinions on the inconsequential are of course to be bandied about, in fact it's obviously encouraged.  but consequentiality is relative.  don't forget to connect your heart to your brain for that extra second and be compassionate in your expressions.
 
 thanks if you even took the time to read this.

flawd101

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2003, 07:36:00 pm »
rip m/

Jaguär

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2003, 07:56:00 pm »
Broadkat, are you alright? Seriously. I'm not making fun of you either. I know depression all too well! I also know how many, many people really don't understand it. That took a lot to bare your soul like that.

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2003, 10:30:00 pm »
Chill out
 
 Maybe this soothing image will help:
   <img src="http://www.busy-bees.com.au/graphics/products/7711%20puppy.jpg" alt=" - " />

Jaguär

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2003, 11:07:00 pm »
Or this one.....
 
  <img src="http://drs.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=cats/v=2/l=IVI/*-http://www.avant-gardening.com/three%20cats%20at%20pond1.jpg" alt=" - " />

Bags

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2003, 11:27:00 pm »
Broadkat, I don't know you, but I found your input amazingly elucidating, thoughtful, complex and insightful.  Like just about everyone, I've struggled with demons, and agree that it's far more complex than some on the board have exclaimed.  Whatever the cause, such a soulful and intelligent man's death is devastating and something to be mourned.  I, in fact, find it especially sad that his inner turmoil was so profound and deeply experienced that he found no way out of that but the violence he inflicted on himself.
 
 Reach out to those who love you; though your pain will be a challenge for them, they love you, and we all have some sort of shit we need to work through.
 
 Thought this story from today's NY Times was touching in its simplicity.
 
 October 26, 2003
 
 In Brooklyn, Musician Was Just Another Guy Named Smith
 By MICHAEL BRICK
 
 People come to New York to be found or to be lost. Elliott Smith came to Brooklyn for a little of both.
 
 Mr. Smith, the singer and songwriter who was found dead of a stab wound, apparently self-inflicted, at his home in Los Angeles on Tuesday, achieved fame during his years in Brooklyn, but people who knew him remember him as someone who did not seek attention.
 
 Mr. Smith, who died at age 34, would spend late nights and early mornings at O'Connor's, a bar on Fifth Avenue in Park Slope, where he would sit in a booth, quietly playing cribbage or composing music.
 
 Even after he became a known figure among musicians and club owners in New York City and in the broader segment of the music industry devoted to angst-filled pop, Mr. Smith sought anonymity.
 
 "In the course of talking to him, I figured out that he was Elliott Smith," said Michael Priggen, a former bartender at O'Connor's.
 
 Mr. Smith, who was born in Omaha and grew up around Dallas and Portland, Ore., lived in Brooklyn in the late 1990's. Then, the section of Park Slope that he favored was full of bodegas and car service dispatchers.
 
 He said in interviews and, less directly, in his songs, that he struggled with addictions to drugs and alcohol during his years in Brooklyn. On his first major-label album, "XO," released in 1998, he sang:
 
 "So I wait for the F train, and connect through a friend of mine to a yesterday dream, 'cause I'll have to be high to drag the sunset down."
 
 But it was during his Brooklyn years, too, that he received the offer from the director Gus Van Sant to compose songs for the film "Good Will Hunting," a job that would bring him a broader audience.
 
 "I spend a lot of my time in bars in Brooklyn, where I now live," Mr. Smith said in 1998 to the online magazine Muse, based in Dublin. "It's a good place to write and draw inspiration for songs. I like observing people and faces and how people interact in conversation with each other. Bars are good also because you get the chance to observe all this stuff and no one will take any notice of me. I fit right in â?? just another scruffy person in the corner."

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2003, 09:28:00 am »
It would seem there are a few candidates on the bboard who could use a little Proloxil. ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ Seriously.
        <img src="http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~hhile/gfx/prozac.gif" alt=" - " />

bearman🐻

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2003, 10:54:00 am »
Broadkat, I certainly hope you don't imagine that ALL of us are uncaring, mean-spirited people. I hope that you are at least lurking so you can read this message...please, hang in there. As someone that still copes with depression, all I can say is that you should never lose faith in yourself. I have been in your shoes...and it's really difficult to figure out how one goes on.  But please don't give up just yet. For me it was a combination of medication and therapy that helped...so I just hope you know that people ARE NOT going to judge you or belittle you just because you're going through a rough time. Hang in there...and don't disappear from the board.  If anything, tell us more about your favorite songs of Elliott's and what they mean to you.  One of mine is "Everything Reminds Me of Her"...it gives me chills every time I listen to it.  But pretty much all of "Figure 8" has never really left rotation in my CD player since July of 2000.  It still remains some of his best work, IMO.

broadkat

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2003, 02:40:00 pm »
okay, so i've calmed down a bit and some people have said some really nice things and as always katwoman has egg on her face.  
 
   i was, upon reflection, trying to imply that some of you were mean, though it's embarrassing to say it. this was done as my own knee-jerk reaction to to a constant fear of rejection and isolation which had nothing to do with any of you but which i transferred to you nonetheless.  i don't know any of you in person.  At best, you've been kind, helpful, wonderful, knowledgeable, smartalecks.  i'm okay, you're okay....okay?
 
   i guess i just needed to vent, elliott's death was raw and stinging, and here i was.  so thanks for responding so kindly.  i'm sorry if i came off as either damning or desparate for attention, but i guess in a real sense i was feeling a little of both, of/ from people in general.  i had (obviously)a bad week in which elliott's death (obviously)played some sort of existential-phenomenological part. i feel dumb for the post and probably deserve that feeling, but I am not going to be dumber by depriving you all of my constant annoyances.  i will feel the fear and do it anyway.    ;)  thanks for the sentiments of all flavors.
 
   I will also try to keep posts a little shorter from now on, now that you all know my life story, though.  
 
 --you once talked to me about love
   and you painted pictures of
        a never-never land.
   i could have gone to that place
   but i didn't understand
        i didn't understand
          i didn't understand---

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2003, 03:09:00 pm »
Sure cure for blues

Fico

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2003, 03:30:00 pm »
Not to take ggw's place as the epitomal jerk (since Rhett and his missus are now gone)... but for such a small group of people there really are a lot of you out there with serious headfucks going about... again, I do not want to be insensitive to all you out there dealing with issues but I guess I'll have to watch what I say in here as one snotty remark (it would seem) can drive some of you off the cliff... scary.. this is the only board I post in but I guess there's a lot of "everything" in the cyberworld...
 
 Hell, I was gonna spark some sexual innuendo with Samantha but her ex-boyfriend (who's a few fries short of a happy meal according to Samantha) may be lurking so I don't wanna joke and have this guy go over to her house and chop her into pieces... what would mankie do?

broadkat

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2003, 03:34:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Fico:
  Not to take ggw's place as the epitomal jerk ... but for such a small group of people there really are a lot of you out there with serious headfucks going about... again, I do not want to be insensitive to all you out there dealing with issues but I guess I'll have to watch what I say in here as one snotty remark (it would seem) can drive some of you off the cliff...
hey man, do what you want, but yeah i might get sensitive if say that people who admit they have depression who are posting on a thread IN BEREAVEMENT OF A SUICIDE that they have "serious headfucks" ....  saying  you don't mean to be insensitive doesnt negate the fact that it is pretty objectively insensitive.  
 but no one's barring your brilliant and biting or even baldly insensitive wit, on this or any other thread, as far as i know. i do, however, reserve the reciprocal right to respond to it anyway  I want, like, for example, by saying, "fuck you".  
 "but hey, no offense, dude."  
 
 ps -- if writing a long explanation of something = driving off a cliff, call me the wiley fucking coyote.

ggw

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Re: Elliott Smith R.I.P.
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2003, 03:39:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Fico:
 epitomal
Fico, meet Dictionary.
 
 Dictionary, meet Fico.