930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: Sage 703 on February 13, 2009, 01:24:00 pm
-
AGH.
She needs to go.
-
Point of reference (at least for today's news - there are plenty of reasons to dislike Pelosi), via Drudge:
www.drudgereport.com
HURRY, FELLAS, LET'S VOTE, I AM OFF TO ROME!
Fri Feb 13 2009 09:18:52 ET
Rep. John Culberson, TX claims the "stimulus" bill must be urgently voted on today -- because Speaker Nancy Pelosi is leaving at 6:00 PM for an 8 day trip to Europe!
Culberson made the charge on Houston's KSEV radio.
Pelosi is hoping to lead a delegation to Europe; there's a meeting with the Pope and an award from an Italian legislative group.
Calls to Pelosi's spokesman went unreturned.
In the rushing, Democrats have now broken their promise to have the public see the $790 billion bill for 48 hours before any vote.
Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) predicted that none of his Senate colleagues would 'have the chance' to read the entire final version of the 1,071-page bill before it comes up for a final vote.
Developing...
-
drudge zonging pelosi? no way
-
Haha. You read drudge.
-
is there a chance you thought anything was going to change in dc?
(http://samuelatgilgal.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/nancy-pelosi.jpg)
but hey, atleast she does not have this kid's problem
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00732/SNN1301A-280_732159a.jpg)
-
I do. I still think Drudge is generally better than most other sources at getting the story first, and breaking news.
My dislike of Pelosi is rooted in a lot of things, and this story cements it (now, if Drudge is wrong, fair enough - but I doubt it). She doesn't seem to have any grasp of how things are going to be perceived, or spun against her.
Why not let this bill sit over the weekend so people can review it? The market will be closed, and they can just as easily vote on Monday and avoid the criticism that they're rushing it through at the end of the week.
The fact that there is even a MURMUR of her pushing this through so she can leave the country is an inexcusable PR nightmare.
-
Haha. You read drudge.
shut up.
-
Haha. You read drudge.
shut up.
you read?
lol
-
Haha. You read drudge.
shut up.
you read?
lol
i lol-ed at manimtired.
lol
-
yes. ty. lol.
-
yw
-
Drudge is a disgrace.
I read it for comedic value...
Someone above wrote "If Drudge is wrong.."
"If Drudge is wrong"??? The guy makes a living making shit up!
I think Pelosi is doing a great job.. If anyone needs to go its Reid.
Need to review this bill??
Its a spending bill!!!!!!!!!! The republicans don't like spending except when they are in power and it involves wars and tax cuts for the wealthy! Then they LOVE spending. Now, thanks in large part to their spending and otherwise running the economy into the ground now we are in a big recession. What do you do in times of recession/depression when consumer/business spending is down? Well, if you CAN the government tries to pick up the slack (duh)... If you can't then you get Argentina and a great depression.. I saw that.. 30% unemployment..its not fun...
Its very popular and very easy to rail against "spending"- particularly by republicans who had no problems doing the spending earlier- but whats the other option? Sitting back and just seeing the economy contract further leading to more unemployment
And its really disingenous to say "we need the weekend to look at it, where' the harm in that?" We know exactly what will happen if they get the weekend: they will tear it apart and try to build opposition against it on the part of the public.
NO. Obama has more than done what he could to bring the republicans in on this (half the "spending" is tax cuts for pete's sake). Fuck them. THey lost.
-
My immediate response to this thread...
Haha. You read drudge.
-
My immediate response to this thread...
Haha. You read drudge.
(http://www.mercuras.com/0209/obamaSnob.gif)
-
Drudge is a disgrace.
I read it for comedic value...
Someone above wrote "If Drudge is wrong.."
"If Drudge is wrong"??? The guy makes a living making shit up!
I think Pelosi is doing a great job.. If anyone needs to go its Reid.
Need to review this bill??
Its a spending bill!!!!!!!!!! The republicans don't like spending except when they are in power and it involves wars and tax cuts for the wealthy! Then they LOVE spending. Now, thanks in large part to their spending and otherwise running the economy into the ground now we are in a big recession. What do you do in times of recession/depression when consumer/business spending is down? Well, if you CAN the government tries to pick up the slack (duh)... If you can't then you get Argentina and a great depression.. I saw that.. 30% unemployment..its not fun...
Its very popular and very easy to rail against "spending"- particularly by republicans who had no problems doing the spending earlier- but whats the other option? Sitting back and just seeing the economy contract further leading to more unemployment
And its really disingenous to say "we need the weekend to look at it, where' the harm in that?" We know exactly what will happen if they get the weekend: they will tear it apart and try to build opposition against it on the part of the public.
NO. Obama has more than done what he could to bring the republicans in on this (half the "spending" is tax cuts for pete's sake). Fuck them. THey lost.
First, Drudge is one of the more powerful people in the modern media. Like it or not, it is the truth. And Drudge simply does not make a living "making shit up." His site RARELY has original material; it serves as an aggregate source for news on the web. So I don't know what you're talking about.
Second: I didn't rail against spending, nor did I rail against the bill. I'm railing against Pelosi. She seems to have zero concept of how what she does will be perceived by the public and her opponents. Maybe it is a great bill - but she shouldn't go to Europe immediately after passing it. I mean, come on - that's common sense. Whether she is right or wrong isn't my point: my point is how what she is doing will be used against her, the Democrats, and the President.
And as for this point:
"its really disingenous to say "we need the weekend to look at it, where' the harm in that?" We know exactly what will happen if they get the weekend: they will tear it apart and try to build opposition against it on the part of the public.
That's due process, friend (not to mention, was the promise of the caucus and the President). That's how the government was intended to work. Reading legislation is a rather base expectation to have of our elected officials - who, by the way, still answer to the public that might be against it.
Sorry for expecting there to be some kind of review process before we spend $800 billion.
-
what is his stance on the octuplet mom
-
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/RileyNotOReilly/siren_animated.gif)
-
Doesn't matter now.... (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29179041/)
-
i love the "drudge makes shit up" line..
have you ever been on the site?...he links 99% of the time.
lol@u.
-
Doesn't matter now.... (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29179041/)
FTA: "The measure was passed on a 246-183, with no Republican "yes" votes. It will now go to the Senate, where a vote is expected later Friday."
This is what Pelosi fails to understand; this morning on NPR, more than one GOP member in the House was talking about voting for the bill. But because of the way this is handled, she loses all of them, so they can vote as a block and make a statement about their opposition to it.
-
i love the "drudge makes shit up" line..
have you ever been on the site?...he links 99% of the time.
lol@u.
Huh? He absolutely makes shit up! The guy is a friggin joke..
He'll take one line of an article that is all saying one thing and build that line to be the news.. then you read the article and its hardly even the 10th most important point.. Drudge makes his own news up!
He'll take a picture of a snow storm somewhere and then put up a picture of Gore and say "Gore speaks about Global Warming while Norway faces record ice storm!"
Its really a website for morons or people who enjoy it for comedic value. It is not a website for news
He is very particular about what he links to and his link will have a title to get you to go in reading it thinking what he wants you to think..
I'm really done with this thread but to give any credence to what Drudge says about Pelosi when he's been grinding that ax since she became Speaker is really ridiculous...
And what is Pelosi's crime?? That she managed to rally the house votes to support the stimulus??? Give me a break. Thats what a House Speaker does... Now if she'd failed to get the votes then yes she should resign.
Come on people.. stick to talking about music because the political commentary here is about third grade level.
-
Doesn't matter now.... (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29179041/)
FTA: "The measure was passed on a 246-183, with no Republican "yes" votes. It will now go to the Senate, where a vote is expected later Friday."
This is what Pelosi fails to understand; this morning on NPR, more than one GOP member in the House was talking about voting for the bill. But because of the way this is handled, she loses all of them, so they can vote as a block and make a statement about their opposition to it.
What a joke! Pelosi needs to bend over backwards to get a few republicans to vote for the bill? They want their hand held!!!! wah wah you didn't treat us with respect! How about republicans actually put the interests of the country first here and stop being a bunch of crybabies??? Eh, gentleman the country is going to hell in a handbasket BECAUSE OF THE JOB YOU CLOWNS DID (where was your issue with spending between 2001-2008????)and the government needs to spend some money to prop things up.. This is pretty simple stuff.....
I'm outta here...
-
i love the "drudge makes shit up" line..
have you ever been on the site?...he links 99% of the time.
lol@u.
Huh? He absolutely makes shit up! The guy is a friggin joke..
He'll take one line of an article that is all saying one thing and build that line to be the news.. then you read the article and its hardly even the 10th most important point.. Drudge makes his own news up!
He'll take a picture of a snow storm somewhere and then put up a picture of Gore and say "Gore speaks about Global Warming while Norway faces record ice storm!"
Its really a website for morons or people who enjoy it for comedic value. It is not a website for news
He is very particular about what he links to and his link will have a title to get you to go in reading it thinking what he wants you to think..
I'm really done with this thread but to give any credence to what Drudge says about Pelosi when he's been grinding that ax since she became Speaker is really ridiculous...
And what is Pelosi's crime?? That she managed to rally the house votes to support the stimulus??? Give me a break. Thats what a House Speaker does... Now if she'd failed to get the votes then yes she should resign.
Come on people.. stick to talking about music because the political commentary here is about third grade level.
Drudge crafts headlines. That is not the same thing as "making shit up." He's got an eye for stories within stories; whether or not you agree with his agenda is a different story. He's absolutely got a purpose in doing what he does, but if you can't sort through that on your own, that's your problem. It doesn't change the fact that he often sets the agenda for the rest of the news networks to follow - he gets the story hours, sometimes days before the networks get to it.
Pelosi's crime is that she has no concept of how what she does is perceived in the wider lens, and how her actions may be used against her by somebody EXACTLY like Drudge, or Rush, or Hannity, or O'Reilly, or any of the other GOP talking heads that reach audiences of millions. To disregard how your message and image will be distorted by the people that disagree with you is a huge leadership failure, as this is how opposition is built against you.
-
Doesn't matter now.... (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29179041/)
FTA: "The measure was passed on a 246-183, with no Republican "yes" votes. It will now go to the Senate, where a vote is expected later Friday."
This is what Pelosi fails to understand; this morning on NPR, more than one GOP member in the House was talking about voting for the bill. But because of the way this is handled, she loses all of them, so they can vote as a block and make a statement about their opposition to it.
What a joke! Pelosi needs to bend over backwards to get a few republicans to vote for the bill? They want their hand held!!!! wah wah you didn't treat us with respect! How about republicans actually put the interests of the country first here and stop being a bunch of crybabies??? Eh, gentleman the country is going to hell in a handbasket BECAUSE OF THE JOB YOU CLOWNS DID (where was your issue with spending between 2001-2008????)and the government needs to spend some money to prop things up.. This is pretty simple stuff.....
I'm outta here...
Pelosi doesn't need to "bend over backwards." She simply needed to allow debate and discussion to occur. Republican congressmen and women from more liberal districts are under enormous pressure to support some measure of stimulus package. If Pelosi had allowed them the time to consider what their constituents will say if they vote against the bill, she'd have picked up support that would have been important to both her and the President. Instead, she's given them an EASY out to vote against it: "we didn't have time to review it."
I'm sorry, but that's idiotic. While action is commendable, action without considering the potential consequences or REACTIONS is the sign of poor leadership.
-
Why single out Pelosi? Why not go after every single Member of Congress that has done a Congressional Delegation trip? These things are always scheduled when there is a recess, and one starts this weekend. You think that any Republican was going to stick around through tomorrow (Valentine's Day)? Sorry, but that's the reality of how this shit works. The secret is they all want to go home (or on their trips abroad) just as bad as Democrats. Besides, given the urgency of the economic conditions, don't you think it's sort of criminal to NOT do something? Anyone know more than 10 people that have been laid off in the last 6 months? I know of at least 17. That's not OK by me. The fact is that Obama and the Democrats are in control now, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
-
Why single out Pelosi? Why not go after every single Member of Congress that has done a Congressional Delegation trip? These things are always scheduled when there is a recess, and one starts this weekend. You think that any Republican was going to stick around through tomorrow (Valentine's Day)? Sorry, but that's the reality of how this shit works. The secret is they all want to go home (or on their trips abroad) just as bad as Democrats. Besides, given the urgency of the economic conditions, don't you think it's sort of criminal to NOT do something? Anyone know more than 10 people that have been laid off in the last 6 months? I know of at least 17. That's not OK by me. The fact is that Obama and the Democrats are in control now, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Easy answer: I'm singling out Pelosi because she is in charge. She sets the tone and the agenda. If she says to be there through this weekend, and the GOP leaves, then she has the upper hand in the debate. But this way? She's a target of easy blame - not only for leaving town, but for the stimulus bill itself due to the manner in which she passed it.
I know plenty of people who have been laid off as well, and I don't like it either. But allowing people the opportunity to review the bill is just common sense, as well as politically savvy to prevent the inevitable GOP outcry.
-
i think the easy answer is youre singling out pelosi because of a drudge siren
-
My point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvnwOjDjnH4
Boehner never needed to have the opportunity to make this speech.
-
if all the people who love to argue politics would just go back to school, study economics/political science/philosophy/pyschology . . . . we would have a lot less bickering and a lot more action. get out there and be apart of it; stop watching from the sidelines.
-
If you really believe Republicans ALL EVERY SINGLE ONE voted against this stimulus bill because they didn't have time to review it you are very naive. This bill has been under discussion for weeks. They voted against it because they think its the politically expedient thing to do. They wanted time to drag out the process and weaken the bill if not kill it.
When a party all votes against it its not uncommon to come up with some excuse about "the process". Its a typical "I lost! It was unfair!" baloney.
Lets face it this has been under discussion for a while and its time to get something passed. More dithering just makes Obama look weak and makes the american people have even less confidence in whats going on (and the bill).
But whatever.. another republican administration messed things up and now the big boys will come out and clean it up. In a year or two the economy will be heading up and republicans will look like idiots. I mean if the economy does not rebound we'll just a need a bigger stimulus. The recipe for a recession or a depression is not to cut government spending!
-
I still think Drudge is generally better than most other sources at getting the story first, and breaking news.
Drudge reminds me of that Eklund's hockey buzz guy or vice versa. Yeah, occasionally they "break" a story, but what about the other 900 times they publish garbage that turns up to be true? He is a consistant right-leaning meta-site for other people's reporting, though.
-
If you really believe Republicans ALL EVERY SINGLE ONE voted against this stimulus bill because they didn't have time to review it you are very naive. This bill has been under discussion for weeks. They voted against it because they think its the politically expedient thing to do. They wanted time to drag out the process and weaken the bill if not kill it.
When a party all votes against it its not uncommon to come up with some excuse about "the process". Its a typical "I lost! It was unfair!" baloney.
Lets face it this has been under discussion for a while and its time to get something passed. More dithering just makes Obama look weak and makes the american people have even less confidence in whats going on (and the bill).
But whatever.. another republican administration messed things up and now the big boys will come out and clean it up. In a year or two the economy will be heading up and republicans will look like idiots. I mean if the economy does not rebound we'll just a need a bigger stimulus. The recipe for a recession or a depression is not to cut government spending!
That isn't what I said, is it? I said this gives them an easy excuse to vote against it, whereas with time to review it, they would face more pressure in constituencies that are more liberal.
And when you say "this has been under discussion for a while," what exactly are you referring to? The exact bill - and the language therein - wasn't finalized until late yesterday. While the concept has been discussed for awhile, the specifics of what they actually VOTED on, and what will actually be put into law, was not discussed until late last night, and voted upon today.
ADDITION: What makes Obama look weak is the lack of bipartisanship. That's what he campaigned upon, and that's what people are expecting. When the GOP can hammer him and the Democratic leadership on charges that the process was closed to Republicans and to the public, it is far more damaging than if things wait an extra weekend (when the markets are closed) and that charge becomes less credible.
-
I still think Drudge is generally better than most other sources at getting the story first, and breaking news.
Drudge reminds me of that Eklund's hockey buzz guy or vice versa. Yeah, occasionally they "break" a story, but what about the other 900 times they publish garbage that turns up to be true? He is a consistant right-leaning meta-site for other people's reporting, though.
what about this? http://www.ez-websites.com/grudge/
-
we should just go ahead and call this country iraq, then the gop wouldn't mind spending billions to save the infrastructure. then the "mission accomplished" signs can come out.
-
we should just go ahead and call this country iraq, then the gop wouldn't mind spending billions to save the infrastructure. then the "mission accomplished" signs can come out.
potw!
-
the Republicans ruined our country's economy. They deserve no consideration.
-
i believe the mortgage crisis started this ball rolling.....bwarny fwank anyone? can you imagine if an influential republican had a gay lover that was an executive at fannie mae? LOLz to the max!
-
i believe the mortgage crisis started this ball rolling.....bwarny fwank anyone? can you imagine if an influential republican had a gay lover that was an executive at fannie mae? LOLz to the max!
i thought all republicans had gay lovers. or atleast were on ashleymadison.com all the time.
and here i thought you were going to blame . . . . bill clinton for this.
-
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/17/cafferty.stimulus/index.html
-
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/17/cafferty.stimulus/index.html
It is very surprising to me how much I've agreed with Cafferty of late.
-
Cafferty...fucking dumbass. Do you really think Members of Congress are going to sit through and pore over every detail of a 1,000 page bill? It has NEVER worked that way people, sorry to tell you there's no Santa Claus either. Does Cafferty also think Members of Congress physically write the bills themselves too? No, but most of them will know what are the key things they're voting for. The bulk of the bill was done more than the 48 hours beforehand and drafts were circulated, but final negotiations took longer than thought (oh gee, when does THAT not happen?).
Though I don't agree with everything in the stimulus bill (who possibly could??), the message here was one of urgency. If something DOESN'T get done ASAP, everyone is going to think that Congress and Obama don't care. Ideally, the Republicans should be included in negotiations, and they have been for most of the process. But Big Baby Boehner is trying to make a point, and if you want to talk about pathetic and out of touch leadership, then you need look no further than him. His partisanship is a big reason why the Republicans keep losing seats.
If Congress passes some kind of legislation to address the job issue as soon as possible, they're going to be viewed as pushing something through too fast. Most people are expecting some kind of result soon, and this is Obama's way of trying to do something. Have there been mistakes made? Yes, of course. There's no way we'll all agree on what will go into a stimulus bill, and I don't disagree entirely on some of the comments made about the Democratic leadership, but I'm happy to see at least some people care enough to try something. At least now we have an easier path for those with ideas to implement them in a timely fashion. And after 6 solid years of Republican leadership where they controlled the House, Senate and White House, it's time for the other guys to take a shot at it. Some people need to quit whining, give it a little more time, and then bitch all they want once they see certain results or the lack of them.
-
Obama just needs to stop this whole bipartisan thing. George W campaigned as a uniter, not a divider, and the one and only clever thing he did was drop the whole charade when he got to office.
The Republicans bleating about how they're not being involved in the process is so fucking stupid that I can't believe they can keep a straight face. I mean, Hastert & Delay constantly bent, changed or ignored the rules to prevent the Democrats from contributing to key legislation, so to see them now whining and moaning about is so mind boggling that I can only conclude that they realize their constituencies are made up of complete morons. Which they are.
-
exhibit A: manimtired. not lol.
-
exhibit A: manimtired. not lol.
exhibit b:
(http://www.koaa.com/archive/x1589516093/g1f4000a99ae361cf01f76a319bb5e06d6a65d6854ad18e.jpg)
and c:
(http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/G000359.jpg)
-
I just feel like i should chime in here...i agree with callat. :)
btw. . .in response to your statement about what makes obama look weak. . .he looks weak by handing this porkulus mess to pelosi and harry reid. i think that if obama was being honest about wanting a bi-partisan bill (beyond maine and arlen specter), and i think he was, he should have handled it himself and not hope and changed it away to pelosi, reid and the rest of the congressional democrats.
this is not a stimulus bill, this is a spending bill. . . .i mean when the CBO says that it won't have much effect until 2011, and paul krugman is back-tracking from his own textbook to defend it as a "stimulus", i think the answer is evident about it's immediate effects.
-
this whole thing has made the republican party look weak. the country is in deep fiscal trouble and all they do is cry about proceedure and semantics, but yet their govenors will indeed take the money the so vehmently oppose
-
this whole thing has made the republican party look weak. the country is in deep fiscal trouble and all they do is cry about proceedure and semantics, but yet their govenors will indeed take the money the so vehmently oppose
i would agree. . .if they had a real backbone they'd step up and argue that this whole stimulus package is unnecessary to begin with....they only got so far by arguing it's a waste of money (which it is), full of wasteful spending (which it is) and won't accomplish the goals put forward by the administration (and it won't). i mean, only 36% of the public voiced any sort of support for the thing as of this weekend. . .
as for the governors, well, being a governor versus being a member of congress entails far different responsibilities . . .also, unlike the federal government, states are required to have a balanced budget and can't run a deficit, not to mention that states already rely on federal funding for a large percentage of their overall funding.
as bernanke once said- a more effective stimulus would be to simply drop money from a helicopter. if the federal government wants to give away $787 billion, split it up by population and just hand it over to the governors and let them decide how to spend the money, not congress.
-
It's a necessary bill. One could quibble with the details -- way too much money in tax cuts versus additional money to the states in a foolhardy effort to "reach across the aisle" to the Rush-publicans. And not enough money to seriously develop a new energy paradigm. But it's a huge, historic start and hopefully will help us to avoid a dangerous deflationary spiral.
-
It's a necessary bill. One could quibble with the details -- way too much money in tax cuts versus additional money to the states in a foolhardy effort to "reach across the aisle" to the Rush-publicans. And not enough money to seriously develop a new energy paradigm. But it's a huge, historic start and hopefully will help us to avoid a dangerous deflationary spiral.
if you're a keynsian, this isn't enough money, if you follow hayek, this is a foolish attempt by the government to exert its control over something inherently uncontrollable. . .
the tax cuts in this waste is simply foolish and won't do anything (gee, thanks. . .$13 more a month) (i should also note that i thought those stimulus rebates of previous years were a waste of time and money as well). . .there is way too much spending on non-stimulus programs in the bill. if you want to print your way to increasing federal/state spending, then infrastructure projects would be the way to go; unfortunately, infrastructure spending is well less than 50% of the spending part of the bill and will take several years to show up in the economy. instead, we get language that starts to unravel welfare reform, makes attempts at protectionism and other pet projects of the democrats.
-
Venerable is now my hero. Keep fighting the good fight!