Fantasy Baseball

[Guiny]

Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
 
 rob, do you pitchers get minus points for hits or just walks?  if i did it, i'd want to include everything like wild pitches, balks, errors, assists, putouts, sacrifice flies and hits, double plays grounded into, and come up with a real composite of a player's worth. [/QB]

We try to keep it real basic even though it doesnt sound basic. So earned runs and walks are the only negative for pitchers other than the loss or blown save. So if a pitcher losses (-5) gives up 6 earned runs (-6), walks 3 (-3), that's already -14. But say its ol' Randy Johnson and he strikes out 15 batters, a bad loss just turned into a positive 1 point. But if you have someone like Shawn Estes, forget about it, he's gonna kill you. Closers are the big losers if they get a blown save loss. I've seen -21 pts out of a closer pitching less than an inning. So now that I'm playing Roto I'll have to look more into a pitcher who might win alot BUT gives up a lot of hits, I'm not used to playing in leagues with a WHIP catagory, so it'll be interesting for me.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
  vote update:
 
 freddy: AVG
 keithstg: AVG
 RobGee: OBP
 bookerT: OBP
 hoya: OBP
 tenfifteen: OBP
 ratioci: indifferent
 
 keep 'em coming ....

Average, but only because Barry Bonds is such a statistical anomaly in that category (150 points ahead of the next guy) that he'll throw it off for the 13 teams that don't have him.
 
 There are 31 guys with AVG over .300, but only 11 guys .400 or better OBP and then thereâ??s Bonds at .609.  .150 is a lot overcome in a game of statistics.

[Guiny]

That's just one catagory though. I mean, yes he dominates, but what if the other ten hitters on your team are horrible? I guess that's what the draft is all about  

[vansmack]

Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
  That's just one catagory though. I mean, yes he dominates, but what if the other ten hitters on your team are horrible? I guess that's what the draft is all about      

One category in a ten category league.  That's a significant amount.  And given his HR prowess in an already HR glorified stat system.....I voted for average.  
 
 I may lose the vote and that's fine, I just thought I would share why.

Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
  I know from [...] just how dominant he was
 
 beat me

Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
  kind of like a fantasy

Originally posted by vansmack:
 And that's not head

<img src="http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage23/15.gif" alt=" - " />

[HoyaSaxa03]

Originally posted by vansmack:
   

Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
  That's just one catagory though. I mean, yes he dominates, but what if the other ten hitters on your team are horrible? I guess that's what the draft is all about      

One category in a ten category league.  That's a significant amount.  And given his HR prowess in an already HR glorified stat system.....I voted for average.  
 
 I may lose the vote and that's fine, I just thought I would share why. [/b]

understandable ... i'd contend, however, that the great advantages of using OBP for every other player outweigh the anomaly that is barry bonds

[HoyaSaxa03]

Originally posted by BookerT:
   you don't want to make it so academic, y'know?
 

never thought i'd hear this out of a basebal prospectus fan =)
 
 anyone go (or used to go) to clyde's in georgetown and drink at the back bar?  there was (is?) a great bartender there who kept all sorts of baseball almanacs and stat books behind the counter, always up for a good baseball discussion...

[HoyaSaxa03]

vote update:
 
 freddy: AVG
 keithstg: AVG
 vansmack: AVG
 RobGee: OBP
 bookerT: OBP
 hoya: OBP
 tenfifteen: OBP
 ratioci: indifferent
 
 keep 'em coming ....
 
 ----
 
 this would be much easier if this was a real message board with a voting option

[ratioci nation]

Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
  vote update:
 
 freddy: AVG
 keithstg: AVG
 vansmack: AVG
 RobGee: OBP
 bookerT: OBP
 hoya: OBP
 tenfifteen: OBP
 ratioci: indifferent
 
 keep 'em coming ....
 
 ----
 
 this would be much easier if this was a real message board with a voting option

just to make things interesting, I am going to go with AVG, that is what I have always played in the past

[Guiny]

Too late, you already voted  

[vansmack]

Originally posted by HoyaSaxa03:
  understandable ... i'd contend, however, that the great advantages of using OBP for every other player outweigh the anomaly that is barry bonds

To the contrary.  I think it's ruined the value of the Ichiro/Pierre/Crawford/Figgins of the world (multi-dimensional guys that do everything except hit HRs).  At least their AVG's were considearbly above the league AVG, but with using OBP, they're a little less valuable.  Those guys don't get walked often because nobody wants them on base.
 
 But we all play by the same rules and as long as we come to consensus ahead of the draft we can draft accordingly....

[Guiny]

But those four players you mentioned, except maybe Figgins, I can't remember off the top of my head, are gonna excel in stolen bases which is one of the ten catagories. And not many players are gonna be close to Crawford and Pierre.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
  But those four players you mentioned, except maybe Figgins, I can't remember off the top of my head, are gonna excel in stolen bases which is one of the ten catagories. And not many players are gonna be close to Crawford and Pierre.

I didn't say they were wrothless, but we have stripped them of 1/3 of their value.
 
 Using OBP would make them one (maybe two as base stealers tend to score too) dimensional players in this league, as opposed to good three dimensional players using average.
 
 HR hitters, on the other hand, are 4 dimensional players in this leage as they hit HRs, score runs, knock guys in, and even if their average sucks, they get walked a lot so their OBP value is increased.

[Guiny]

Everyone's got good points, like I said, I'm new to the roto thing so I'm absorbing as much info as I can.

[vansmack]

I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass or difficult here.  I like this discussion and would rather have it before the league starts, that's all.  I'll play no matter what the league decides.  
 
 If we're going to have a HR heavy league, that's great - we all know going in so it's all out on the table before the draft.  
 
 But HR, RBI, R, SLG, and now OBP too - that's 5 categories geared towards who knocks it out of the park.
 
 Speedy guys get 2 - R and SB (and they share one).  Their OBP's are good, but are less valuable to their performance than AVG.