â??I could probably outdo The White Stripes with a guitar

[you be betty]

Originally posted by callat703:
   

Originally posted by you be betty:
  No one really said they were original.  They obviously draw influences from a ton of people, and it shows.  They also have their own thing going for them.  And the fact of the matter is, whether you like the music or not (or rather, whether you're old and losing it or not), Jack White is an extremely talented guitarist.  I will go very far to defend him.  Boy can shred.

I don't think being an extremely talented guitarist really means all that much; go into any Guitar Center and you'll find plenty of "boys that can shred."  The question is the songs that you can write with that ability, and I think that the original point made is the most valid - White seems to have half a mind toward his pop culture persona, and half towards his music.  I'd actually contend that the Raconteurs record is the banner example of that fact, contrary to what somebody said previously that it was a shining achievement.  I see it more as a demonstration of White's limitations, and the failure to successfully work with another songwriter to craft a cohesive album.  Certain songs worked majestically.  Others...not.
 
 Granted, White's work on the Loretta Lynn record was quite brilliant.  But I still want to hear him do more with his guitar than make it sound like an organ and sing blues riffs on top of it.
 
 Plus, can we remember that "Get Behind Me Satan" is probably easily the White Stripes worst record - notably, also the first one to come out when White was a pseudo-celebrity? [/b]

But you just did say he worked brilliantly with Loretta.  Meaning yes, he can work with other artists to make a great album...maybe he just hasn't found the right combination yet?
 The Stripes were put together when Jack started fooling around on a guitar and had Meg keep a beat quite childishly in their attic.  The unfortunate thing that we're seeing after five albums is that there is only so much you can do with bluesy riffs and the same drum beat.  Their last album was a little bit of a failed attempt at trying something new.  So I think the only things we've proved here are the limitations of the group (and maybe Jack found some of these with the Raconteurs?  i don't know; i think it's a pretty good album), rather than that Jack is a bad artist.  
 and in conclusion, Pete Townshend should shut his fucking mouth.  The Who were a great group too, but they also seemed limited to one sort of sound throughout their career.  so i don't really know why he's so bitter.

[Sage 703]

The Who seemed limited to one sort of sound?  What??!

[you be betty]

Originally posted by Chaz Nakatestes, Breaststroking Guy:
  So do you think this reflects:
 
 a. the lack of fine guitarists in the last decade
 b. your limited exposure to music
 c. the fact that you've probably been listening to music  seriously for way less than a decade.
 
 
 
   

Originally posted by you be betty:
    i think Jack White is one of the finest guitarists that has come out of the last decade.  

[/b]

the answer would be A.  the thing that really bothers me the most about Fall Out Boy, for example, is their focus on the wrong aspects of the act.  their live show lets most elements of the sound (guitarwork, etc) suffer so they can make some 12 year olds scream by doing flips on top of their drumset or whatever.

[you be betty]

Originally posted by callat703:
  The Who seemed limited to one sort of sound?  What??!

i mean, they had a trademark sound.  the white stripes have a different trademark sound.  and then you look at other groups like no doubt for example, who have changed their sound on every record.  it's not a bad thing at all, i just don't see how one musician could criticize another for having that...

[Sage 703]

Originally posted by you be betty:
   

Originally posted by Chaz Nakatestes, Breaststroking Guy:
  So do you think this reflects:
 
 a. the lack of fine guitarists in the last decade
 b. your limited exposure to music
 c. the fact that you've probably been listening to music  seriously for way less than a decade.
 
 
 
   

Originally posted by you be betty:
    i think Jack White is one of the finest guitarists that has come out of the last decade.  

[/b]

the answer would be A.  the thing that really bothers me the most about Fall Out Boy, for example, is their focus on the wrong aspects of the act.  their live show lets most elements of the sound (guitarwork, etc) suffer so they can make some 12 year olds scream by doing flips on top of their drumset or whatever. [/b]

Without meaning to offend...if your point of reference is Fall Out Boy, I think it might trend toward B.  There are some sick guitar players out there that can "out-shred" Jack White.  For a more mainstream example, take a band like Coheed & Cambria - those dudes can play. A lot of the ridiculous guitar players are playing other kinds of music - metal, hardcore, grindcore; they aren't doing indie rock.
 
 But other examples from more mainstread rock in the last ten years?  Billy Corgan; Mike Mccready; John Frusciante; The Edge...

[Sage 703]

Originally posted by you be betty:
   

Originally posted by callat703:
  The Who seemed limited to one sort of sound?  What??!

i mean, they had a trademark sound.  the white stripes have a different trademark sound.  and then you look at other groups like no doubt for example, who have changed their sound on every record.  it's not a bad thing at all, i just don't see how one musician could criticize another for having that... [/b]

Tommy?  Quadrophenia?
 
 Does "Baba O'Reilly" sound like "Happy Jack" or "Acid Queen?"  Or even "My Generation?"
 
 I think the Who were a pretty amazingly versatile band.

[ggw]

Originally posted by HoyaSaxa08:
   

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 Shredding is out.  It's seen as too boorish and manly in this new age of Death Cab For Cutie asexual wussy-rock.

no offense, but when has pure shred-ability been a crucial factor for an indie guitarist (ie, how is that any different now)?
 
 it seems like "alternative" guitar music has always been the "alternative" to shredders and ultimate instrument proficiency ... punk rock was a reaction to bloated prog guitars, and all the big shredders of the 80s (dudes like satriani) weren't exactly embraced by indie rock [/b]

Indie rock aside -- the great debate over which guitarist is the greatest seems to have vanished from the cultural zeitgeist.  Back in the day, all the kids used to argue whether Jimmy Page was better than Clapton; whether Eddie Van Halen or Stevie Ray Vaughan was better, or if Jeff Beck was better than all of them.  Who's around now?  That Buckethead dude?  Tom Morello? Frusciante? Please.... Gone are the days when the guitar gods roamed the earth.

[you be betty]

Originally posted by callat703:
   

Originally posted by you be betty:
   

Originally posted by Chaz Nakatestes, Breaststroking Guy:
  So do you think this reflects:
 
 a. the lack of fine guitarists in the last decade
 b. your limited exposure to music
 c. the fact that you've probably been listening to music  seriously for way less than a decade.
 
 
 
     

Originally posted by you be betty:
    i think Jack White is one of the finest guitarists that has come out of the last decade.  

[/b]

the answer would be A.  the thing that really bothers me the most about Fall Out Boy, for example, is their focus on the wrong aspects of the act.  their live show lets most elements of the sound (guitarwork, etc) suffer so they can make some 12 year olds scream by doing flips on top of their drumset or whatever. [/b]

Without meaning to offend...if your point of reference is Fall Out Boy, I think it might trend toward B.  There are some sick guitar players out there that can "out-shred" Jack White.  For a more mainstream example, take a band like Coheed & Cambria - those dudes can play. A lot of the ridiculous guitar players are playing other kinds of music - metal, hardcore, grindcore; they aren't doing indie rock.
 
 But other examples from more mainstread rock in the last ten years?  Billy Corgan; Mike Mccready; John Frusciante; The Edge... [/b]

lack of fine guitarists in mainstream rock.  there you go.  there are a few, but i just don't see it a lot anymore...the value of a solid guitarist.  i don't know, maybe i'm limited.

[HoyaSaxa03]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 Back in the day, all the kids used to argue ...

only losers listen to rock now, cool kids listen to shitty rap music

[you be betty]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
 Gone are the days when the guitar gods roamed the earth. [/QB]

thank you for articulating for me.

[you be betty]

Originally posted by callat703:
   

Originally posted by you be betty:
   

Originally posted by callat703:
  The Who seemed limited to one sort of sound?  What??!

i mean, they had a trademark sound.  the white stripes have a different trademark sound.  and then you look at other groups like no doubt for example, who have changed their sound on every record.  it's not a bad thing at all, i just don't see how one musician could criticize another for having that... [/b]

Tommy?  Quadrophenia?
 
 Does "Baba O'Reilly" sound like "Happy Jack" or "Acid Queen?"  Or even "My Generation?"
 
 I think the Who were a pretty amazingly versatile band. [/b]

they WERE, but would you argue that they have one trademark sound?  musician-on-musician, Jack has proved versatility too through other projects.

[Sage 703]

I wouldn't argue that the Who have a trademark sound.  I couldn't begin to describe the Who in a sentence or two, but I think I could do that for the White Stripes, and for Jack White.

[HoyaSaxa03]

Originally posted by callat703:
  I wouldn't argue that the Who have a trademark sound.  I couldn't begin to describe the Who in a sentence or two, but I think I could do that for the White Stripes.

i'd have to agree with this ... just a quick browse through a "best of" who comp shows a lot of remarkably diverse "sounds" from different eras ... it'd be easy to pin their sound down as kind of power pop from 65-67, but after that they branched out a lot ... much more diverse than most seminal bands

[you be betty]

you're right.  and so, what do we conclude?

[HoyaSaxa03]

Originally posted by you be betty:
  you're right.  and so, what do we conclude?

that you're wrong.      
 
 i actually don't remember what we were arguing about