DC Area Voters

[ggw]

Originally posted by callat703:
  And you claim that he's faltered terribly in the debates?  What debates are you watching?

I think he's listening to the debating voices in his head.

[ratioci nation]

Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
 The Obama contingency refuse to list his political accomplishments and decided to argue Bill Clinton wasn't experienced. However, as you've noticed, I've schooled them on that point as well, but good work in reminding the viewers how obstructionist they're being and how badly they want to discuss any issue except the ease at which their chosen candidate will get butchered in a general election.
 
 Have we talked yet about how, despite his supposed magnetism and charisma, when put one-on-one in a debate, Barack has faltered terribly? That's a quality I want in a general election candidate.

Go ahead and list Hillarys accomplishments.  Not including ones that were actually Bill's accomplishments.
 
 
 Just a note: I will vote for Hillary if she is nominated but I find the idea that she is more electable to be ridiculous.  Just as you find it naive for people to think that Barack will be able to hold up to the Republican attack machine, I find it incredibly naive of you to so underestimate the anti hillary sentiment in the country.

[Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface]

Originally posted by callat703:
  You keep bringing up the fact that the general is going to be more difficult.  But if Clinton can't sink Obama, what makes you think she can sink McCain?

Clinton cannot go "as hard" on Obama as a Republican can for fear of "fracturing the party." They may make occasional rough statements at each other but they're always tempered with hugs and kisses afterwards, whereas McCain will go hard on Obama for 4+ months straight.
 
 In the general election, I think most people have set opinions on McCain and Clinton because they've  been in the public eye for so long. If you look, they poll similarly (I think Clinton would lead 46-45 nationally in the most recent poll I saw). Obama is more up in the air. Many are intrigued by him, but not as set in their opinion and I think the Obama Afterglow will wear off when McCain and the RNC trashes for months straight as weak on defense and inexperienced. I see a sea change among "independants" to McCain like we saw them go for Bush the last few.
 
 Against Clinton, McCain can go as hard as he wants but he's probably preaching to the choir. In a McCain/Clinton national race, 45% are set for McCain no matter what, 45% are set for Hillary no matter what, and the other ten percent are in flux. The attacks on Clinton are actually a little ineffective in that all the people who hate Hillary are voting McCain already, regardless of democratic nominee.
 
 A Clinton/Richardson or Clinton/Obama ticket can win the majority of those 10% (who have heard about Hillary for years and are still undecided) over while doing a great get-out-the-vote campaign among minorities and women. I know alot of people hate Hillary but she does poll well against a Republican among real undecided's and independent's.

[manimtired]

as an evil republican i think mccain will do better vs hillary and i hope she gets the nomination.

[ggw]

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
  Why is is that the most highly educated Democratic voters are in Obama's camp, and not Hillary's?

That's not fair.  Julian labored countless hours to get that bachelors from the University of Phoenix and you be betty spent a whole summer at RISD designing skinny jeans and polo shirts for fey guys.

[Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  Julian labored countless hours to get that bachelors from the University of Phoenix

Our football stadium is better then your school's football stadium!
 
 (Now if only we had a campus. And a football team.)

[Sage 703]

Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
     

Originally posted by callat703:
  You keep bringing up the fact that the general is going to be more difficult.  But if Clinton can't sink Obama, what makes you think she can sink McCain?

Clinton cannot go "as hard" on Obama as a Republican can for fear of "fracturing the party." They may make occasional rough statements at each other but they're always tempered with hugs and kisses afterwards, whereas McCain will go hard on Obama for 4+ months straight.
 
 In the general election, I think most people have set opinions on McCain and Clinton because they've  been in the public eye for so long. If you look, they poll similarly (I think Clinton would lead 46-45 nationally in the most recent poll I saw). Obama is more up in the air. Many are intrigued by him, but not as set in their opinion and I think the Obama Afterglow will wear off when McCain and the RNC trashes for months straight as weak on defense and inexperienced. I see a sea change among "independants" to McCain like we saw them go for Bush the last few.
 
 Against Clinton, McCain can go as hard as he wants but he's probably preaching to the choir. In a McCain/Clinton national race, 45% are set for McCain no matter what, 45% are set for Hillary no matter what, and the other ten percent are in flux. The attacks on Clinton are actually a little ineffective in that all the people who hate Hillary are voting McCain already, regardless of nominee.
 
 A Clinton/Richardson or Clinton/Obama ticket can win the majority of those 10% (who have heard about Hillary for years and are still undecided) over while doing a great get-out-the-vote campaign among minorities and women. I know alot of people hate Hillary but she does poll well against a Republican among real undecided's and independent's. [/b]

I think you're kidding yourself.  I think Hillary as the nominee mobilizes the GOP base better than any potential GOP nominee.  All of those Republicans that would rather sit at home than vote for John McCain are the same Republicans that would go out explicitly to cast a vote against Hillary Clinton.
 
 Let us not forget that if Obama is not in the general election, I'd guess that about 5 million of the Democratic voters that have appeared out of the woodwork for the primary disappear.
 
 I also appreciated your convenient elimination of the statistics that give Obama a more definitive lead over McCain.  But you're clearly in the Hillary Clinton school of facts...so I'll forgive you.
 
 OBAMA:  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html
 
 CLINTON:
  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_clinton-224.html

[ggw]

Julian wishes he could "go hard" on Bill for 4+ months.
 
 
 

Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
   

Originally posted by callat703:
  You keep bringing up the fact that the general is going to be more difficult.  But if Clinton can't sink Obama, what makes you think she can sink McCain?

Clinton cannot go "as hard" on Obama as a Republican can for fear of "fracturing the party." They may make occasional rough statements at each other but they're always tempered with hugs and kisses afterwards, whereas McCain will go hard on Obama for 4+ months straight.
 
 In the general election, I think most people have set opinions on McCain and Clinton because they've  been in the public eye for so long. If you look, they poll similarly (I think Clinton would lead 46-45 nationally in the most recent poll I saw). Obama is more up in the air. Many are intrigued by him, but not as set in their opinion and I think the Obama Afterglow will wear off when McCain and the RNC trashes for months straight as weak on defense and inexperienced. I see a sea change among "independants" to McCain like we saw them go for Bush the last few.
 
 Against Clinton, McCain can go as hard as he wants but he's probably preaching to the choir. In a McCain/Clinton national race, 45% are set for McCain no matter what, 45% are set for Hillary no matter what, and the other ten percent are in flux. The attacks on Clinton are actually a little ineffective in that all the people who hate Hillary are voting McCain already, regardless of democratic nominee.
 
 A Clinton/Richardson or Clinton/Obama ticket can win the majority of those 10% (who have heard about Hillary for years and are still undecided) over while doing a great get-out-the-vote campaign among minorities and women. I know alot of people hate Hillary but she does poll well against a Republican among real undecided's and independent's. [/b]

[Charlie Nakatestes, Japanese Golfer]

That's all nice and shit, but how is McCain going to convince Americans that we need to keep fighting in Iraq for the next 100 years? They can deride Obama's inexperience all they want, but how in the fuck are they going to turn public opinion on Iraq back in their favor?
 
 

Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
   

Originally posted by callat703:
  You keep bringing up the fact that the general is going to be more difficult.  But if Clinton can't sink Obama, what makes you think she can sink McCain?

Clinton cannot go "as hard" on Obama as a Republican can for fear of "fracturing the party." They may make occasional rough statements at each other but they're always tempered with hugs and kisses afterwards, whereas McCain will go hard on Obama for 4+ months straight.
 
 In the general election, I think most people have set opinions on McCain and Clinton because they've  been in the public eye for so long. If you look, they poll similarly (I think Clinton would lead 46-45 nationally in the most recent poll I saw). Obama is more up in the air. Many are intrigued by him, but not as set in their opinion and I think the Obama Afterglow will wear off when McCain and the RNC trashes for months straight as weak on defense and inexperienced. I see a sea change among "independants" to McCain like we saw them go for Bush the last few.
 
 Against Clinton, McCain can go as hard as he wants but he's probably preaching to the choir. In a McCain/Clinton national race, 45% are set for McCain no matter what, 45% are set for Hillary no matter what, and the other ten percent are in flux. The attacks on Clinton are actually a little ineffective in that all the people who hate Hillary are voting McCain already, regardless of democratic nominee.
 
 A Clinton/Richardson or Clinton/Obama ticket can win the majority of those 10% (who have heard about Hillary for years and are still undecided) over while doing a great get-out-the-vote campaign among minorities and women. I know alot of people hate Hillary but she does poll well against a Republican among real undecided's and independent's. [/b]

[Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface]

Originally posted by callat703:
  All of those Republicans that would rather sit at home than vote for John McCain are the same Republicans that would go out explicitly to cast a vote against Hillary Clinton.

This is the point on which you guys are kidding yourselves. The modern Republican party ALWAYS gets behind its candidate. Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. There is not going to be millions of conservatives sitting around completely indifferent willing, to let godless, liberal Obama walk into the Oval Office. You don't think the RNC can villify Obama the way they have Hillary, Kerry, and Gore?

[godsshoeshine]

your argument sounds like the dems are fucked either way

[Sage 703]

Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
   

Originally posted by callat703:
  All of those Republicans that would rather sit at home than vote for John McCain are the same Republicans that would go out explicitly to cast a vote against Hillary Clinton.

This is the point on which you guys are kidding yourselves. The modern Republican party ALWAYS gets behind its candidate. Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. There is not going to be millions of conservatives sitting around completely indifferent willing, to let godless, liberal Obama walk into the Oval Office. You don't think the RNC can villify Obama the way they have Hillary, Kerry, and Gore? [/b]

No, frankly.  I don't.
 
 Nice job ignoring your refuted "facts" about the polls though.

[Chip Chanko]

This actually surprises me since his campaign seems to be working from notes taken during the past two bush campaigns...repeat a generic message over and over again. To me, an educated person, I want to hear more and really haven't from him. Every time I hear him speak my BS meter goes off the charts.
 
 Now, he's not as annoying as Edwards was with his "Poverty, Millworker, Change" campaign but all this generic "Ch-Ch-Change" rhetoric is like nails across a blackboard. But I guess repetition like this worked for Bush twice.
 
   

Originally posted by Charlie Nakatestes,Japanese Golfer:
  Why is is that the most highly educated Democratic voters are in Obama's camp, and not Hillary's?

[ggw]

Obama is not godless.  He loves Allah.  He learned all about him when he was growing up in that madrasa in Indonesia.
 
 
 

Originally posted by Julian, good manners AFICIONADO:
   

Originally posted by callat703:
  All of those Republicans that would rather sit at home than vote for John McCain are the same Republicans that would go out explicitly to cast a vote against Hillary Clinton.

This is the point on which you guys are kidding yourselves. The modern Republican party ALWAYS gets behind its candidate. Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. There is not going to be millions of conservatives sitting around completely indifferent willing, to let godless, liberal Obama walk into the Oval Office. You don't think the RNC can villify Obama the way they have Hillary, Kerry, and Gore? [/b]

[manimtired]

Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
  your argument sounds like the dems are fucked either way