DC Area Voters

[vansmack]

Originally posted by pdx pollard:
  Hillary demands Samantha Power be fired and she resigns?  

It was the right call.  Samantha is a brilliant woman, as I learned first hand while working with her in the late 90's in Eastern Europe.  She "corrected me" on more than one occasion as a young lawyer.  I can see how her passion could lead to a mistake like this (then again, I think my passion was to blame for me name calling this week as well), but she's in the public eye.  She can't do that.  And an Irish girl should know better how to deal with Scottish tabloid journalism.

[ratioci nation]

Originally posted by vansmack:
  It was the right call.  Samantha is a brilliant woman, as I learned first hand while working with her in the late 90's in Eastern Europe.  She "corrected me" on more than one occasion as a young lawyer.  I can see how her passion could lead to a mistake like this (then again, I think my passion was to blame for me name calling this week as well), but she's in the public eye.  She can't do that.  And an Irish girl should know better how to deal with Scottish tabloid journalism.

I more have a problem with Obama allowing there to be a perception that Hillary had a hand in the resignation.  Yet there is little response from Obama on the daily crap coming out of these morning Clinton conference calls.  I realize Obama's campaign is trying to give the impression of taking the high road, but it would make me feel better if they hit back once in a while.  And thats whats important, keeping me happy.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by pdx pollard:
 When is Wolfson going to resign for the Ken Starr comment.

That would require Hillary to run her campaign with the same dignity as Obama.  I don't expect Wolfson to be fired until people start pointing out the differences in how one person runs their campaign agaisnt the other.
 
 Let's not forget, though, she has fired staffers in the past who have made disparaging remarks publicly about Obama's drug use and those that forwarded the now famous Obama "Muslim" email.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by pdx pollard:
  I realize Obama's campaign is trying to give the impression of taking the high road, but it would make me feel better if they hit back once in a while.  And thats whats important, keeping me happy.

This is the campaigns conumndrum right now - and I don't think there's an easy answer.  
 
 When I read yesterday that Obama was going to sharpen his criticism, I was disappointed.  But I bet many like you were elated to hear that he's going to fight back.  I don't think the campaign fully knows what to do.  You can't preach to try to break the Washington Establishment and then get sucked right into it after a weekend that absolutely epitomized the Washington Establishment.  Worse yet, the Hill and Bill show was terribly effective in their use Establishment Politics (which to me, tells a lot more about the voters than it does about the Clintons).  I don't know if anybody saw the 60 Minutes piece on Ohio voters, but I realized that Obama was in trouble after watching the one guy who was undecided, but was leaning towards Obama after he cleared up the national anthem, muslim and getting sworn in on the Koran questions...
 
 I hope he avoids it, but it is looking less and less likely that he can.
 
 EDIT:  I didn't actually watch the rest of that video.  I have no idea who the Young Turks are and could care less - I only wanted to point out the first minute or so.

[ratioci nation]

Originally posted by vansmack:
  This is the campaigns conumndrum right now - and I don't think there's an easy answer.  
 
 When I read yesterday that Obama was going to sharpen his criticism, I was disappointed.  But I bet many like you were elated to hear that he's going to fight back.  I don't think the campaign fully knows what to do.  You can't preach to try to break the Washington Establishment and then get sucked right into it after a weekend that absolutely epitomized the Washington Establishment.  Worse yet, the Hill and Bill show was terribly effective in their use Establishment Politics (which to me, tells a lot more about the voters than it does about the Clintons).  I don't know if anybody saw the 60 Minutes piece on Ohio voters, but I realized that Obama was in trouble after watching the one guy who was undecided, but was leaning towards Obama after he cleared up the national anthem, muslim and getting sworn in on the Koran questions...
 
 I hope he avoids it, but it is looking less and less likely that he can.

I don't need the kitchen sink thrown at Hillary as she is doing to Obama (although I am sure some part of me would get some satisfaction at this point).  But Obama has generally been pretty good at responses that demonstrate cool under pressure and I fear now that the Clinton campaign is relentlessly bringing out new crap to throw every day there is no time to respond to one thing before the next shit is hurled.  The shit is starting to pile up.  
 
 I just find it so disgusting that Hillary supporters like her for this very reason.  That she can pile shit just as fast as the Republicans.  They are resigned to the idea that there is no other way to campaign.  I can't get behind that.

[Mobius]

This is a fantastic oppurtunity for Obama to step up and knock her out.  There are a lot of glaring weaknesses in Hillary that he has politely declined to address.  Now's the time to take her out.  If he can't do this, he doesn't deserve the nomination (although he may do it and voters/superdelagates may not follow).
 
 The risk is that focusing on Hillary may take his eye off the ball.  He can't lose sight of his message and goals.
 
 Also, he needs to fight what will be an instinct by the media and the public to cast him as a cartoon character or celebrity.  He can't fall for his own star-power - he needs to put weight behind it and validate it.  Now.

[Frank Gallagher]

It's the only way to campaign....it always has been and always will be so don't be so naive.
 
 Osama is just more subtle at it, unfortunately one of his aids wasn't...and not even accurate.
 
 Hillary is not a monster so that was totally innacurate. Had she called her "lard arse" that would've at least been an accurate statement, and I wonder what the media would've made of that??
 
 Do you think Bill and Hillary still do 'it'....with each other?

[Frank Gallagher]

Originally posted by Mobius:
 
 The risk is that focusing on Hillary may take his eye off the ball.  He can't lose sight of his message and goals.
 
 .

...and that message would be what exactly?
 
 HOPE....CHANGE.....HOPE....CHANGE....HOPE....CHANGE.
 
 Call me stupid but I need a bit more than that to become and Osama sheeple

[ratioci nation]

Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
  don't be so naive.
 

I knew that was coming
 
 

Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
 
 Osama

cute

[ratioci nation]

Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
  ...and that message would be what exactly?
 
 HOPE....CHANGE.....HOPE....CHANGE....HOPE....CHANGE.
 
 Call me stupid but I need a bit more than that to become and Osama sheeple

saying this shit while calling people sheeple, hello irony

[vansmack]

Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
  Call me stupid but I need a bit more than that to become and Osama sheeple

I would never call you stupid.  But I do question your research skills.
 
 I would start here: The Blueprint for Change

[ratioci nation]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/148765.php
 
 

Let's call it the Republicans' Bitch-Slap theory of electoral politics.
 
 It goes something like this.
 
 On one level, of course, the aim behind these attacks is to cast suspicion upon Kerry's military service record and label him a liar. But that's only part of what's going on.
 
 Consider for a moment what the big game is here. This is a battle between two candidates to demonstrate toughness on national security. Toughness is a unitary quality, really -- a personal, characterological quality rather than one rooted in policy or divisible in any real way. So both sides are trying to prove to undecided voters either that they're tougher than the other guy or at least tough enough for the job.
 
 In a post-9/11 environment, obviously, this question of strength, toughness or resolve is particularly salient. That, of course, is why so much of this debate is about war and military service in the first place.
 
 One way -- perhaps the best way -- to demonstrate someone's lack of toughness or strength is to attack them and show they are either unwilling or unable to defend themselves -- thus the rough slang I used above. And that I think is a big part of what is happening here. Someone who can't or won't defend themselves certainly isn't someone you can depend upon to defend you.
 
 Demonstrating Kerry's unwillingness to defend himself (if Bush can do that) is a far more tangible sign of what he's made of than wartime experiences of thirty years ago.
 
 Hitting someone and not having them hit back hurts the morale of that person's supporters, buoys the confidence of your own backers (particularly if many tend toward an authoritarian mindset) and tends to make the person who's receiving the hits into an object of contempt (even if also possibly also one of sympathy) in the eyes of the uncommitted.
 
 This is certainly what Bush's father did to Michael Dukakis and, sadly, it is what Bush himself did, to a great degree, to Al Gore.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/182191.php
 
 

This is the type of phony "controversy" the GOP/Karl Rove uses to their advantage. Josh famously called it the "bitch slap" theory of politics, and Clinton is using the same playbook. Obama needed to send a signal that these types of fake outrages won't play, but by her quick resigntation, the bitch slap is alive and well.
 
 Depressing.
 
 So true, so true.
 
 Now, one thing we get at TPM is a really front seat view of each side's immediate feelings and reactions to the campaign. The notes come in angry or plaintive or descriptive. And sometimes they're hard to read since we're on the receiving end of some of the emotional turmoil the intensity of the campaign churns up. So from that, I have a pretty good sense of where the Obama supporters are at at the moment. And a lot of the more intensely engaged of them are telling each other that what Power said is exactly right. And I can see why they're mad at Hillary after a lot of what's happened over the last couple weeks.
 
 But you know what? Ice cream's fattening and we all die too. Get over it. This is about getting inside Obama's (the collective Obama, let's say) head, psyching him out, forcing mistakes and then going right back on the attack all over again. Getting the Obama folks pissed and gritting their teeth and off their game is precisely the point.
 
 The Obama folks can either withdraw to a world where the 'new politics' reins or focus on the fact that her in the real world there are two 'old politics' practitioners standing between him and the presidency and he needs to decide how he's going to deal with that fact.

[ratioci nation]

Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
 TLDR

[vansmack]

Originally posted by Brain Walrus:
  It's the only way to campaign....it always has been and always will be so don't be so naive.
 

Oh, the Audacity.

[ggw]

Attacking your opponent means you dictate what they have to speak about.  It gets them off their own message.  It's American Politics 101. Kudos to Obama for trying to avoid that dirty pool up till now, but he can't play that way forever.  There are plenty of shady land deals in Hillary's past, as well as quid pro quo Kazakh oil deals, senior advisors who awarded tens of millions of dollars in compensation to sub-prime mortgage company chairmen, criminal fund raisers, etc..., etc..., etc...
 
 If Obama doesn't want to start playing those cards now, he won't be around in the fall when the GOP interest groups start playing them.