Audiophiles, I Summon Thee

[chaz]

Hoya....I think a DAC would definitely help.  I don't imagine the one in the MAC mini is very good.  You can find many for under $100.  I think audioengine even sells one that doubles as a headphone amp that may be in this price range.  Check out NuForce they are supposed to be good and pretty cheap I think.  You can always order a cheapo dac like the ones in your link from a place with a good return policy and send it back if it doesn't make a difference.

IMO, the best thing you can do to improve SQ is swap out your speakers.

Thank you sir.  The audioengine DAC is $170, which seems silly given the rig I'm talking about.

Just so I understand the whole function of the DAC -- a cheapo DAC probably wouldn't help much if I could run digital/optical out of the Mac and into a digital input on my receiver, right?  But because I'm dealing with a noisy analog headphone jack, I'm going to get improved performance just by using the cheap DAC to run digital audio out of my Mac via USB or optical and connecting to my all-analog receiver?

I really like the P4s - not a ton of oomph, but really accurate and clear.  With rowhouse living and a basement tenant, it's about all I can ask for.

Well, if the external DAC is better than the one in the MAC, in theory you should see an improvement.  Also the analog out of the MAC is probably pretty crappy so you'll be bypassing that as well.  If you could go digital out from the mac to digital in on the receiver, you be bypassing the DAC on the mac and using the DAC on the reciever., but does the mac even have a digital out? You say the reciever is all analog so based on that it does not have digital inputs.  Whether or not that would sound better than getting your own DAC depends on the quality of the one in the receiver.  Though considering the source material, the receiver and speakers you have, who knows if you would notice.  I think if you got a decent dac the biggest gain in SQ you would get would be bypassing the cheapo analog out on the mac.

the mac has a mini-TOSLINK out of the same jack as the analog 3.5mm line, I had been running a mini-TOSLINK-to-TOSLINK connect from the mac to a different receiver with an optical input.  the current  receiver does not have any digital inputs (optical or coax), only analog RCA inputs.

from everything i've read about 3.5mm analog out jacks on macs (and PCs for that matter), I think I'll get a nice performance boost from even a cheap USB DAC, but we'll see.  I ordered the behringer uca202 today.

Check back after you put it in...i've got a fairly similar set up these days...but skipping receiver and using powered monitors.  Maybe I'll go the same route.  Getting a new imac in a few weeks for the family for xmas...

[vansmack]

Stop having children and upgrade your receiver.  I can't imagine owning a receiver with no digital inputs.

[HoyaSaxa03]

Stop having children and upgrade your receiver.  I can't imagine owning a receiver with no digital inputs.

I have a Yamaha receiver that I bought as a home-theater-in-a-box 7 years ago with plenty of digital inputs.  This Onkyo has better specs, aside from the inputs, and I only run a 2-channel setup now so have no need for all the home theater / surround sound bullshit.

[chaz]

Did you ever put the DAC in?  How did it work out? 
I have an imac outputting to a pair of cheap m-audio monitors via the headphone jack.  Last night was messing around and remembered I had an old usb audio interface laying around....one of these -

 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Alpha?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&gclid=CNbJx-Lt6LQCFQJx4Aod6AsAew

I installed it and ran the monitors from it and it was a HUGE difference.  Quite shocking actually.

[HoyaSaxa03]

yes, I'm using this cheapo USB DAC and it makes a huge difference:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UCA202/

[grateful]

This guy thinks way too much about speaker grills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkVvwS38dj4

[vansmack]

The best thing I've ever done for my music listening enjoyment in the last decade wasn't to buy any fancy new electronics, surprisingly.  It was to reduce background/outside noise in the room I listen to music in the most.

[Cock Van Der Palm]

Definitely posts on this forum.

This guy thinks way too much about speaker grills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkVvwS38dj4

[grateful]

So "audiophile" might be a stretch, but I'm going to buy either the Axiom Audio Air N2 or the Sonos 5 this week. Anyone have experience with either or both?

[grateful]

What's your go-to song for testing a new system. I've finally committed to a major upgrade to my car audio. What song will let the system shine, and demonstrate whatbits really capable of?

I'm guessing the Mountain Goats isn't the answer.

[Justin Tonation]

Depends upon what I'm testing for, but Propaganda's "The Murder Of Love" is great. Huge frequency range, plenty of dynamics, lots of reverb.

[sweetcell]

What's your go-to song for testing a new system. I've finally committed to a major upgrade to my car audio. What song will let the system shine, and demonstrate whatbits really capable of?

i'd argue that "testing" and "letting it shine" aren't quite the same thing.

to me, "testing" is critically listening to the audio system to determine how well it is performing, how well is it reproducing the playback material, evaluating its fidelity - and making corrections as needed.  first criteria for selecting what to play is familiarity: do you know what the music is supposed to sound like?  have you heard it a million times on other good sound systems?  here are a few "reference albums" that i've read are common among audio engineers when tuning a system:
- Steely Dan: Aja
- Donald Fagen: Nightfly
- Dire Straits: Brothers in Arms
- Boz Scaggs: Lowdown
- RATM: s/t
- Jay Z: Black Album (especially for cars and other subwoofer-heavy setups)
- AC/DC: Back in Black
- Peter Gabriel: So
- The Eagles: Hell Freezes Over
- Leftfield: Leftism

(aside/true story: in 2000, i went to a untz untz untz festival where my friends knew the organizers, so we were let into the venue before the festival started - this allowed us to get killer camping spots.  the main sound system was brand new, and after the festival it was going to be used on tour by the rolling stones.  the festival was its test run, so some serious audio engineers with cool gadgets were on site.  we were woken up one morning by 140 db of.... Joe Cocker.  they played some sort of greatest hits album/collection.  i had a quick chat with one of the audio guys, and he said they used Cocker because of the dynamics, full spectrum of sound, and familiarity.)

"letting it shine", on the hand, is akin to showing off in my books: make the listeners feel those subs, get blasted by clean sound at high volumes, "bet you've never heard <insert band name here> sound THIS good!!!", etc.  you still want something that was well recorded, but what would be "best" in this case is much more subjective. it's less about critical listening and fidelity, and more about blowing the listener's sock off.  for some people that will be metallica, for others it'll be the three tenors...

[Starsky]

Steely Dan - Aja


The end

[grateful]

Thank you!

[vansmack]

  here are a few "reference albums" that i've read are common among audio engineers when tuning a system:

That's a lot of time to spend in your car just to test your sound system...

A couple of quick hits just to make sure it's dialed in, then take your massive cross country roadtrip with Sweets list.

To test placement, balance, connectivity, I start with Oasis' "D'You know what I Mean" - there's a one minute intro with sounds all over the place before the mix of guitars drums and bass come in.

To test the bass/subwoofer levels I use Daft Punks "Doing it Right" (the long intro allows for a lot of adjusting), XX "Angels", and Taylor Swift's "I knew you Were Trouble" (A Max Martin/Shellback dubstep bass drop refrain is perfect for tuning).  RTJ's "Legend Has it" is also good. 

For vocals I used to almost always use Mazzy Star's "Fade into you" but have recently added Cigarettes after Sex a lot - usually "Sunsetz" and the MTV unplugged's version of "Take on Me," probably in reverse order of how I listed them there.

And then lastly, an addition to Sweetcell's pretty good list would be Sturgill Simpson's "Sound and Fury" album because of the breadth of sounds.

EDIT: Shit, somehow I left off Pet Sounds.  I usually use God Only Knows, but Sloop John B works too.