Maybe we should just elect Trump president

[Julian, Bespoke SEXPERT]

the left just gave him a pass because he could present himself as having been against the Iraq war debacle unlike warmonger Hillary...

This is probably the truest thing ever. His whole campaign against Hillary was "I openly admit I would've voted the same way Hillary did but because I held no national office at the time it came up for vote, you should view me in a different light." It was stunning how many on here ate it with a spoon.

[Relaxer]

I could easily be mistaken but I thought in 08, Obama tried to make the case that while he wasn't in the Congress at the time (and therefore unable to vote on Iraq), he would've voted against it and as proof, pointed to statements he made as a state senator condemning the invasion.

[ggw]

I'm just impressed that Zack De La Rocha and Tom Morello predicted the Trump for President thing all the way back in 1999:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w211KOQ5BMI  (see the 1:04 mark).

[hutch]

I could easily be mistaken but I thought in 08, Obama tried to make the case that while he wasn't in the Congress at the time (and therefore unable to vote on Iraq), he would've voted against it and as proof, pointed to statements he made as a state senator condemning the invasion.

This is true.. he was a State Representative representing a very very liberal small area in South Chicago...and he went on a local access TV show and of course everything was incredibly liberal......this is what I mean by he could present himself as having been against the war...but its also true that after that local access show he said different things.. and OF COURSE he was going to say he was against the invasion when he was a State Rep for a very liberal district...had he not said that he'd have lost his job...

Far harder was to say you were against the invasion when you were a national senator with presidential aspirations in a post 9-11 world and political environment from the state most affected by the attack.... obviously Hillary could not foresee the incredible debacle that would ensue.. .had Bush simply declared victory and left (he wisely declared victory but failed to leave..this was the huge problem) things could have been very different... after taking Baghdad we should have just left..of course we should have never invaded in the first place but that's all water under the bridge...

I do find it strange that one of the only wise things Bush did was to declare victory for which he was mercilessly criticized...

[Relaxer]

"sigh"

[Justin Tonation]

He can go back to making Minwax commercials

[Dejecty-hatch lııllı|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl]

I do find it strange that one of the only wise things Bush did was to declare victory for which he was mercilessly criticized...

...not sure I understand what you are saying here

[Dejecty-hatch lııllı|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl]

He can go back to making Minwax commercials

so is he the pizza delivery guy 

[Space Freely]

What exactly makes him a "good candidate" anyways? The fact he's a good debater and looks like a Latino Ken doll?

exactly!

The last thing the country needs is a Republican from the warmonger/neocon faction of the party...maybe I should ask what you like bout Rubio?

By the way Space Freely must be having a tough time between Trump and Carson who seem to be dueling for the anti-muslim vote

I'm not a one issue voter.

[hutch]

I do find it strange that one of the only wise things Bush did was to declare victory for which he was mercilessly criticized...

...not sure I understand what you are saying here

seems rather obvious to me.

you fight a war.. you say you won and you get out... we should have said we toppled saddam's government and achieved our objectives....  had we not interfered AFTER we toppled the government its very probable that the Sunnis would have retained power and we would not have strengthened our enemies as we ended up doing... Iran's position in the region was strengthened with the Shiites taking over and the sunnis eventually got tired of it and formed Isis...

Bush should have declared victory far sooner and we should have gotten everybody out... we could have come out looking like winners, saved a ton of money, and lives.. and its hard to imagine things could have gone much worse..

Of course, we should never have gone in in the first place but back then that was a very unpopular stance.. I can still remember CNN telling us that once we made the decision to go in to protest was unpatriotic...and I can remember for years afterwards turning up for the protests and it was a few dozen people!! Now EVERYBODY suddenly claims they were against it of course....

[hutch]

What exactly makes him a "good candidate" anyways? The fact he's a good debater and looks like a Latino Ken doll?

exactly!

The last thing the country needs is a Republican from the warmonger/neocon faction of the party...maybe I should ask what you like bout Rubio?

By the way Space Freely must be having a tough time between Trump and Carson who seem to be dueling for the anti-muslim vote

I'm not a one issue voter.

just a one issue poster?

[Space Freely]

What exactly makes him a "good candidate" anyways? The fact he's a good debater and looks like a Latino Ken doll?

exactly!

The last thing the country needs is a Republican from the warmonger/neocon faction of the party...maybe I should ask what you like bout Rubio?

By the way Space Freely must be having a tough time between Trump and Carson who seem to be dueling for the anti-muslim vote

I'm not a one issue voter.

just a one issue poster?

I'm pro gay-rights/marriage, pro-choice, pro-science, believe in climate change, am a moderate on gun possession/control, am in favor of legal immigration, pro marijuana legalization, pro public education, am fiscally conservative, strong supporter of freedom of speech, as well as being in favor of separation of church and state.  I would not support Carson because of he would inject his fundamentalist views into his decision making, and I wouldn't support Trump because he's a nut. Anything else? What candidate do you think best matches me?

[hutch]

What exactly makes him a "good candidate" anyways? The fact he's a good debater and looks like a Latino Ken doll?

exactly!

The last thing the country needs is a Republican from the warmonger/neocon faction of the party...maybe I should ask what you like bout Rubio?

By the way Space Freely must be having a tough time between Trump and Carson who seem to be dueling for the anti-muslim vote

I'm not a one issue voter.

just a one issue poster?

I'm pro gay-rights/marriage, pro-choice, pro-science, believe in climate change, am a moderate on gun possession/control, am in favor of legal immigration, pro marijuana legalization, pro public education, am fiscally conservative, as well as being in favor of separation of church and state.  I would not support Carson because of he would inject his fundamentalist views into his decision making, and I wouldn't support Trump because he's a nut. Anything else? What candidate do you think best matches me?

funny...all you post about is muslims...

don't kid yourself, you'll be gritting your teeth and pulling the lever for the democrat...whoever it is.

[Space Freely]

What exactly makes him a "good candidate" anyways? The fact he's a good debater and looks like a Latino Ken doll?

exactly!

The last thing the country needs is a Republican from the warmonger/neocon faction of the party...maybe I should ask what you like bout Rubio?

By the way Space Freely must be having a tough time between Trump and Carson who seem to be dueling for the anti-muslim vote

I'm not a one issue voter.

just a one issue poster?

I'm pro gay-rights/marriage, pro-choice, pro-science, believe in climate change, am a moderate on gun possession/control, am in favor of legal immigration, pro marijuana legalization, pro public education, am fiscally conservative, as well as being in favor of separation of church and state.  I would not support Carson because of he would inject his fundamentalist views into his decision making, and I wouldn't support Trump because he's a nut. Anything else? What candidate do you think best matches me?

funny...all you post about is muslims...

don't kid yourself, you'll be gritting your teeth and pulling the lever for the democrat...whoever it is.

Why is that funny? The non-questioning by liberals of the  misogynistic, homophobic, undemocratic Islamic political systems around the world needs to be called out. And what better place to call it out than on a board populated almost entirely by sanctimonious liberals??? 

I don't think i have major beefs with too any other liberal pet projects, at least not at the moment.

[Julian, Bespoke SEXPERT]

 There are lots of liberals who call out Muslims. Bill Maher for one.