Author Topic: How to end systemic racism?  (Read 2706 times)

Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2020, 11:50:58 am »
I think what has happened in the last few decades is the police budgets went up a crazy amount due to the 'war on drugs' and 'get tough on crime'  and that money is not really being effectively being used to stop crime (before it starts)
we still need the police and the courts of course

I do think it's like a 'build a wall' like statement, it fits on a bumper sticker

So I think the biggest issue lies in that we have 18K different police departments that are all independent organizations and don't answer to a central federal government

 there are some good checks and balances why that is a good way to operate

but makes it insanely complicated on how we'd get comprehensive reform

LAMF

bitter much

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2020, 12:00:48 pm »
Well I hate the cops more than the next guy but seems pretty complicated

Still...am into the idea of changing the police

gavroche

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2020, 12:04:25 pm »
Well I hate the cops more than the next guy but seems pretty complicated

Still...am into the idea of changing the police

I think Camden is the model that people are looking to: https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/protests/stopping-systemic-racism-in-police-departments-protests/65-c8f377a4-c2d4-4659-86e0-3fd13ec3dbc2 or here: https://www.newsweek.com/minneapolis-not-first-disband-police-department-1509327

The idea isn't that we don't need any law enforcement (at least for most people), the idea is that the current system is so broken that you need to start over.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 12:07:04 pm by gavroche »

StoneTheCrow

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2020, 12:08:51 pm »
Defunding the police?


I am kind of unclear how this works but willing to learn..

I don’t get it entirely, either. Should changes be made? Probably. Very carefully, though.

kosmo vinyl

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2020, 12:14:42 pm »
Haven't seen it yet, but John Oliver apparently did a good job with this last night

https://youtu.be/Wf4cea5oObY

T.Rex

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2020, 12:24:20 pm »
Haven't seen it yet, but John Oliver apparently did a good job with this last night

https://youtu.be/Wf4cea5oObY

dammit kosmo, i was about to post that... made it to the last reply thinking "oh good, no one has mentioned john oliver yet"... and there you are.  THANKS.

anyhoo, oliver does talk about this some at the end of yesterday's show (a good investment of 33 minutes). the part that brought it home for me was a press conference with a police chief where he made the following point: police have become society's default means for dealing with problems that are self-imposed: lack of funding for rehab = drug problem = call the police. lack of resources for victims of domestic abuse = domestic violence = call the police.  lack of mental health care = all sorts of problems = call the police. etc.  and the police are, in almost all cases, the wrong people to be dealing with these problems - but we send them anyways, because there is no one else to take care of the problem.

so the thinking behind "defund the police" is to take budget away, but also responsibilities.  take some of that police money and put it towards affordable housing, expanded healthcare, more social intervention specialists, etc., so that you don't need as many police officers.
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Julian, Adroit TASTEMAKER

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2020, 01:16:34 pm »
So when someone robs my house who do I call or am I SOL?

Who writes the accident report?

defunding police doesn't = getting rid of the police.
Considering over 90% of police funding is salaries, benefits, and OT, any sort of “defunding” does equate to literally getting rid of police unless we are talking about defunding like 1% of their budget.

Which is fine, I just wish people would be honest about the reality of what they are proposing. In your “go from giving them 4 billion to only 1 billion” hypothetical, you are de facto firing most police officers en masse. Which, again, is a conversation we can have, I just think we have to call it what it is.
LVMH

gavroche

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2020, 01:19:25 pm »
So when someone robs my house who do I call or am I SOL?

Who writes the accident report?

defunding police doesn't = getting rid of the police.
Considering over 90% of police funding is salaries, benefits, and OT, any sort of “defunding” does equate to literally getting rid of police unless we are talking about defunding like 1% of their budget.

Which is fine, I just wish people would be honest about the reality of what they are proposing. In your “go from giving them 4 billion to only 1 billion” hypothetical, you are de facto firing most police officers en masse. Which, again, is a conversation we can have, I just think we have to call it what it is.

I think the long time BLM activists who are proposing it are actually pretty clear.  It's those of us who want to be supportive, but who cannot get our heads around what the US would look like without a massive police presence, who are unclear.  (And I'll put myself in that second camp for sure).
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 01:21:34 pm by gavroche »

bitter much

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2020, 01:31:15 pm »
That’s fantastic Gavroche


I assume then that there are documents and papers outlining how this would work..it’s a major undertaking but it’s good to know a lot of thought has been given to it


Can you point me to some of them?


Thanks in advance

gavroche

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2020, 01:43:12 pm »
That’s fantastic Gavroche


I assume then that there are documents and papers outlining how this would work..it’s a major undertaking but it’s good to know a lot of thought has been given to it


Can you point me to some of them?


Thanks in advance

Having the details worked out is WAY different than being clear in demands. I just said they've been clear in their demands and they have Camden to point to as a model.  That said, they have been clear in articles and interviews. Just a couple:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/06/defund-police-nypd-brutality-protests
https://www.democracynow.org/2020/6/1/keeanga_yamahtta_taylor_defund_us_police
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/defund-the-police-1007254/
https://www.axios.com/defund-police-black-lives-matter-7007efac-0b24-44e2-a45c-c7f180c17b2e.html
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/03/nashville-council-hears-defunding-police-message-marathon-meeting/3129715001/
https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/2020/05/27/we-need-community-budget-people-nashville/5267975002/

Here is a book: https://www.versobooks.com/books/2817-the-end-of-policing

And then this kind of the more mainstream version:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/05/30/bad-apples-come-from-rotten-trees-in-policing/




« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 01:44:58 pm by gavroche »

bitter much

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2020, 01:45:46 pm »
Cool

I will start with Brookings

Thx

bitter much

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2020, 02:04:54 pm »
Interesting

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52871936


I think we really have to spend hundreds of billions cleaning up the inner cities in Houston, Baltimore etc


And decriminalize drugs as much as we can

And increase spending in the inner city schools which is hard..The Supreme Court ruled in the 1970s there is no right to an equal education and the system we have local property taxes are a big part of local school funding...this must change

If we did for starters these three things I think it would be important


« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 02:08:52 pm by hutch »

Justin Tonation

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #57 on: June 08, 2020, 02:09:15 pm »
😐 🎶

WalkOnBack

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Re: How to end systemic racism?
« Reply #58 on: June 08, 2020, 10:46:15 pm »
e,books . . . are not a correct way of learning anything.  They are fleeting without real paged archiveness.  I must, say, this is the one the best  threads to read, as of late on here.  Real issues broken down within human emotions, and some humor added to break the silence of possible moving on and away.