Author Topic: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?  (Read 9674 times)

Guiny

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2005, 11:11:00 am »
Actually, I didn't see anyone get kicked, but the images were pretty dark so maybe I missed it. Otherwise, everything looked fine.

Sage 703

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2005, 11:29:00 am »
how about the principle of using the national guard for this purpose?
 
 i mean, could you imagine the national guard raiding the 9:30 Club or Nation?

Venerable Bede

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2005, 11:43:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by callat703:
  how about the principle of using the national guard for this purpose?
 
 i mean, could you imagine the national guard raiding the 9:30 Club or Nation?
which one raided nation a few years ago?  d.c. police?  in short, yes, i can see them raiding nation, but not 930, since it's a law-abiding establishment that wants to stay in business.
OU812

sonickteam2

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2005, 12:03:00 pm »
I was at Nation the night the cops came in and shut the place down (the big one, i think they did it more than once)
 
  they were very calm and orderly, no one freaked out and people just kinda left. we were more confused than anything.
 
  either way, rave parties have this thing with them...anyone that used to go is mad as hell whenever one gets busted or something.   Everyone who never went, doesnt get it and seems to think somehow the club or party promoters or attendees have dont this to themselves.
 
    always has been this way, always will.

Sage 703

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2005, 12:07:00 pm »
I've never been to a rave.  But I have been to plenty of rock festivals, and really, there isn't all that much difference.  The same drugs, the same alcohol, and the same behavior for the most part.  So I really don't have a hard time understanding the event.

Guiny

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2005, 12:09:00 pm »
I believe back in the day at Nation, anyone who was a regular knew it was a matter of time before something like that happened. No, I never went there back then but I did hear what went on there from a few people. I think also why it happened was because it was military people who were involved in illegal activity. Military Personal + Illegal activity = Easy busts.

Venerable Bede

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2005, 12:33:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by callat703:
  I've never been to a rave.  But I have been to plenty of rock festivals, and really, there isn't all that much difference.  The same drugs, the same alcohol, and the same behavior for the most part.  So I really don't have a hard time understanding the event.
if you've never been to a rave, then how do you know what goes on at a rave is/isn't worthy of a police crackdown?  i can assure you that your generalizations listed above are wrong.
OU812

vansmack

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2005, 12:38:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by callat703:
  I've never been to a rave.  But I have been to plenty of rock festivals, and really, there isn't all that much difference.  The same drugs, the same alcohol, and the same behavior for the most part.  So I really don't have a hard time understanding the event.
Except rock festivals hire security, secure the proper permits, and make the area safe.
 
 Most rave's are done ad hoc, under the radar, without proper permits and attention to security (like proper lighting and crowd control).
 
 All I saw on the video was a dog going after a kid that prompted an arrest.  What do you want to bet the dog sniffed out drugs?
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vansmack

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2005, 12:40:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Sir HC:
  Weird to see guys in commando outfits to do police work.  Just doesn't seem right.
There is a possibilty that the rave was held on Federal or State land and the National Guard had the jurisdiction for that land.
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godsshoeshine

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2005, 12:59:00 pm »
if you keep clicking links, you find out that its private land, the national guard has raided nonRAVE parties on this land before, they had a permit, and $2 million insurance policy. also they had security that searched everyone and confiscated illegal stuff. but really, they promoters deserve a beat down for trying to have fun in utah. move to california, ya hippies
o/\o

Sage 703

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2005, 01:01:00 pm »
two things:
 
 you don't have to attend something to have an understanding of what goes on.  i'm acknowledging that raves have all of the problems that are associated with them - I don't have to go to one to know that there is a lot of ecstasy, coke, alcohol, other drugs, whatever.  but again, I ask you, how is this any different from a rock festival?  or how about all of the jam band scene?  You mean to tell me that there are more drugs at an event like this than at Bonnaroo?  That's just ignorant.
 
   
Quote
i can assure you that your generalizations listed above are wrong.  
why?  how?  where?
 
 
 point two:
 
 i'm speaking with the understanding that this event: a) hired security, b) had the necessary permits and was held on private land, and c) had an insurance policy, sold tickets, and otherwise operated as a legit, planned event (unlike most raves that are held underground and announced last minute).  My understanding of the event is that is was more "event" than "rave" - perhaps the problem is the language that we're using.

Sage 703

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2005, 01:05:00 pm »
oh, and I never said that it wasn't worthy of police crackdown - any time you've got that kind of event, it sort of begs for police sting.  But I definitely question the means and methods that were used in this instance.

vansmack

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2005, 01:13:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by god's shoeshine:
  if you keep clicking links, you find out that its private land, the national guard has raided nonRAVE parties on this land before, they had a permit, and $2 million insurance policy. also they had security that searched everyone and confiscated illegal stuff. but really, they promoters deserve a beat down for trying to have fun in utah. move to california, ya hippies
You're point on Utah is well taken - that was their first mistake.  
 
 Still not sure about the land issue, but no major news outlet has changed it's story about the insurance bond and the permit.  I'm sure the news outlets would love to pump a lie up, but it the story doesn't seem to be changing.  
 
 In addition, most of the 60 arrests were for illegal activity that the "security" must have missed.
 
 Article Last Updated: 8/23/2005 10:59 AM
 
 
 Police raid rave party in Spanish Fork Canyon
 Party's over: 90 officers from several agencies cite 60 at the event, which had more than 400 people in attendance
 
 By Michael N. Westley
 The Salt Lake Tribune
 Salt Lake Tribune  
 
 About 60 people were arrested Saturday night when police officers busted an illegal rave in Spanish Fork Canyon.
 
    Those arrested were cited on a variety of charges including the possession of illegal narcotics, weapons violations, DUI, illegal consumption of alcohol by a minor, disorderly conduct, assaulting a police officer and drug distribution.
 
    The youngest of those cited was 15 years old, said Utah County Sheriff's Sgt. Dan Gilbert.
 
    Police in Utah County have monitored several raves this summer and have grown increasingly concerned about their legality and safety, Gilbert said. When detectives got word that another party was planned for Saturday, they set to work to make sure they got their point across that such activity was not welcome in their area.
 
    "The Sheriff's Office will investigate and look into and find an illegal mass gathering going on, we will take the appropriate action to stop the party at that time," Gilbert said.
 
    Investigators learned that no permit had been requested for a mass gathering which requires a bond and Utah County Commission approval for groups larger than 250, said Gilbert. Police learned around noon Saturday that the rave would be held in the Diamond Fork area of Spanish Fork Canyon and assembled about 90 officers from several agencies to enforce crowd control.
 
    Undercover officers filtered into the party when the doors opened about 9 p.m. By 11:30 p.m. police confirmed that more than 250 people were in attendance and stormed the party. During their two hours at the DJ-driven dance party, undercover officers had observed a multitude of illegal activities including the sale and consumption of drugs such as cocaine, ecstacy, alcohol, methamphetamine and marijuana.
 
    "The sale of drugs at these parties is so prevalent that at this particular rave party, drugs were offered to local off-duty emergency medical service personnel who were contracted to be there," Gilbert said.
 
    A 17-year-old West Jordan girl overdosed on ecstasy, police said. Most of the participants were between 15 and 30 years old and were from Spanish Fork, Springville, Provo, Payson, as well as Davis and Salt Lake counties, Gilbert said. Two security guards hired by the promotor were arrested for the possession of cocaine and ecstasy and Spanish Fork police made two DUI arrests as partyers drove out of the canyon, he said.
 
    Most of the 400 or so ravers left peacefully.
 
    But others were detained if they had been seen doing something illegal or showed visible signs of impairment, said Gilbert.
 
    In a sweep of the area after the crowd had been controlled, which one raver said was executed with unnecessary force, police found a plethora of drugs and drug paraphernalia scattered on the ground, Gilbert said.
 
    Brett George told Fox News 13 that officers stormed the party and treated attendees unfairly, including beating one man that was trying to film the bust with a video camera.
 
    Police want parents of teenagers to know the dangers of illegal, clandestine rave parties. Gilbert said that in addition to heavy drug use, raves attract sexual assaults, violence, theft and promote unsafe driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
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Venerable Bede

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2005, 01:18:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by callat703:
  two things:
 
 you don't have to attend something to have an understanding of what goes on.  i'm acknowledging that raves have all of the problems that are associated with them - I don't have to go to one to know that there is a lot of ecstasy, coke, alcohol, other drugs, whatever.  but again, I ask you, how is this any different from a rock festival?  or how about all of the jam band scene?  You mean to tell me that there are more drugs at an event like this than at Bonnaroo?  That's just ignorant.
 
   
Quote
i can assure you that your generalizations listed above are wrong.  
why?  how?  where?
 [/b]
well, i can say with a reasonable amount of certainty that a) rock festivals are held at places designed for such events, be it an ampitheatre and such.  therefore, in order to play at said venue, you go through a promoter and use their legal team to make sure that what you want to promote fits within a legal regulatory framework; b) ok. . .just because both are events are where drugs are used, does not mean that you are using the same drugs for the same purposes.  this is the 'oughts, where every drug serves a purpose.  for raves, x is used so that you can go all trippy, feel the pulsating beats and dance and enjoy the community and people around you- rock festivals, you either drink a lot of beer, try to mosh with the other drunks or get into fights.  plus, the music industry and business have too much to lose for a large event (like a rock festival) to be shut down by the local authorities.  the point is- yes, both places are where drugs are used, but rock festivals are done in locations that are used for said events, are done in concert with the local authorities, have large amount of money from record labels and execs., and generally have the means to pull such an event off.
 
 as for jam bands, i don't think many people here would lose any sleep if the govt. wanted to shut that scene down.    :)
OU812

Guiny

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Re: Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2005, 01:41:00 pm »
"In a sweep of the area after the crowd had been controlled, which one raver said was executed with unnecessary force"
 
 Of course they did, take another pill buddy   :roll: