Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?

[vansmack]

Originally posted by sonickteam4:
  correct. thats what i said in my more later post. its the frustration one has when you try to break the mold of society and get kicked in the head for it.
 

Sorry, you posted like 6 in a row and I have a two in a row read limit unless a day has passed.
 
 Venerable and I had a similar conversation off line comparing our rave experiences from the early 90's (since you're Canadian, you can use your late 90's experiences).  His were from SF and mine were LA and we noted the feel good/charitable aspect of the rave seen in SF as opposed to the ridiculous pure party aspect of the LA rave scene.  Both had their time and their place for some folks, and now I guess those rowdy white kids in Utah are having their say.
 
 But to argue that there was use of excessive force here is a bit ridiculous in this instance. Perhaps an excessive show of force by calling the fully dressed National Guard in, but showing and acting are two different things.  That's all we were getting at.

[MindCage]

Originally posted by callat703:
 And again, I'm waiting for somebody to tell me where my understanding is flawed.  I've been to plenty of music events that aren't raves - primarily in the jam band scene - that have a lot of people taking drugs or alcohol for the same reason that they take them at a rave - to further enjoy the music, to become physically involved in the music that is happening, to heighten sensitivity to light, etc.  What is so significantly different that is causing me to have a mistaken understanding?

The difference is most of the people at Jam Band festivals are trustfund babies, with lots of money and keep things low-key under the radar. Raves are primarily younger kids and not the brightest to keep their mouth shut about a good thing. Instead they're all about bragging about the drugs they've got, etc.
 
 Look at the big "rave" that Ultraworld put on just a year ago at the DC Armory. That had a bust that made the news but the event didn't get shutdown and that was on Fed. gov't property. People who do legit "raves" are smart enough to make sure everything else is to a T when it comes to keeping the event properly legal to their fullest extent. Can't expect them to do a full body search of everyone walking in the door looking for where they've stuck drugs in any open orifice.
 
 MindCage
 Mindless Faith
 Deep6 Productions

[MindCage]

Originally posted by sonickteam4:
 than at a rock concert?

Warped Tour isn't a rock concert. It's attack of the clones and dudes in chick pants confused about life.
 
 MindCage
 Mindless Faith
 Deep6 Productions

[vansmack]

Originally posted by MindCage:
  People who do legit "raves" are smart enough to make sure everything else is to a T when it comes to keeping the event properly legal to their fullest extent. Can't expect them to do a full body search of everyone walking in the door looking for where they've stuck drugs in any open orifice.

Can we expect legit raves to hire security staff that do not possess drugs?

[MindCage]

Originally posted by vansmack:
 Can we expect legit raves to hire security staff that do not possess drugs?

Not saying right or wrong, but what the media is printing as "posessing" drugs by security could very well have been confiscated and just not thrown out yet so it was "in their possession" to make the situation look worse.
 
 In the real world, any security person working at any bar, nightclub, concert venue, makes the decision to either keep or throw out drugs that they confiscate. Unless you're hiring full blown security on a military level with security clearance that will have to take a drug and lie detector test before and after, you'll never know what to expect out of hired help, even if it's the local police force.
 
 MindCage
 Mindless Faith
 Deep6 Productions

[vansmack]

Originally posted by MindCage:
  In the real world, any security person working at any bar, nightclub, concert venue, makes the decision to either keep or throw out drugs that they confiscate.

This statement is so utterly ridiculous that I'll let Staph respond.  I don't want to mis-state club policy, but I'll put money that there is a policy at the 9:30 about what to do with confiscated drugs.  At legit venues, the decision is already made for you by terms of your employment.

[root]

That is terrible!

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
 
 Venerable and I had a similar conversation off line comparing our rave experiences from the early 90's (since you're Canadian, you can use your late 90's experiences).  

whats that supposed to mean?  the first rave-party i went to was in 1992. and some of the biggest east coast parties happened in Montreal and Boston back then.   Plus, we were a day trip from Detroit.  and i drove to a party there the day i got my drivers license  

[ggw]

Originally posted by sonickteam4:
 the first rave-party i went to was in 1992. and some of the biggest east coast parties happened in Montreal and Boston back then.   Plus, we were a day trip from Detroit.  and i drove to a party there the day i got my drivers license        

Here's a picture of Sonickteam4 to prove it:
 
    <img src="http://www.edge-inc.net/images/humor/priceless/pricerave.jpg" alt=" - " />

[sonickteam2]

now now

[MindCage]

Originally posted by vansmack:
   

Originally posted by MindCage:
  In the real world, any security person working at any bar, nightclub, concert venue, makes the decision to either keep or throw out drugs that they confiscate.

This statement is so utterly ridiculous that I'll let Staph respond.  I don't want to mis-state club policy, but I'll put money that there is a policy at the 9:30 about what to do with confiscated drugs.  At legit venues, the decision is already made for you by terms of your employment. [/b]

Not really, it's call a conscience. Even at legit venues you can't fully control people based off what they've agreed to or policies in place. Same can be said for a law officer who has sworn under oath.
 
 MindCage
 Mindless Faith
 Deep6 Productions

[vansmack]

Originally posted by MindCage:
  Not really, it's call a conscience. Even at legit venues you can't fully control people based off what they've agreed to or policies in place. Same can be said for a law officer who has sworn under oath.

This goes back to the legitimacy vs. ad hoc approach of the rave scene.  They don't hire established security companies, they hire their buddies or "companies" with less integrity.  There's no rigorous checks and because who knows when the next rave is going be, these security guys have nothing to lose by keeping confiscated drugs.
 
 While I agree that it's nearly impossible to be 100% certain that the people you hire will abide by the rules the owner or principal has mandated, there are many checks and processes that can be put into place to minimize the risks - and I'm certain more established businesses go that extra step to make certain the risks that security has to minimize, including their own.  And some places, like 9:30, do a fantastic job of this.  Others do not and you don't see their establishments/ventures last as long.
 
 My biggest problem with the rave scene was not the illicit use of drugs, it was the lack of protection of the women at these events.  That's why I stopped going.  And to read that security are being arrested for possession of cocaine only furthers my concern.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by sonickteam4:
  whats that supposed to mean?  

Just picking on your mullet.  That's all.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
   

Originally posted by sonickteam4:
  whats that supposed to mean?  

Just picking on your mullet.  That's all. [/b]

just for that, I am routing for the Orioles at the game tonight. and i was even going to let my GF bring her rally monkey.......

[Venerable Bede]

Originally posted by sonickteam4:
 just for that, I am routing for the Orioles at the game tonight.

routing?  is that a canadian phonetic spelling?  in which case, i too will be routing for the o's against the angels.