Utah Rave Bust - Excessive Force?

[Sage 703]

haha, yeah.  I suppose this is my hippie background coming out - all of those festivals are done in locations that aren't designed for music either.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by callat703:
  I've never been to a rave.  But I have been to plenty of rock festivals, and really, there isn't all that much difference.  The same drugs, the same alcohol, and the same behavior for the most part.  So I really don't have a hard time understanding the event.

so then why do you suppose raves get busted much more often than rock concerts?

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
 
 Most rave's are done ad hoc, under the radar, without proper permits and attention to security (like proper lighting and crowd control).
 

correction:  most raves  that get busted are done ad hoc, under the radar, without proper permits and attention to security (like proper lighting and crowd control).
 
 
   when i was going to these things, until 1995 or so , none of them were legal, but after that, the ones with permits rarely ever got shut down.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by Rob_Gee:
 
 Of course they did, take another pill buddy    :roll:  

dont be so closed minded, rob. it makes you look stupid.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by callat703:
 
 you don't have to attend something to have an understanding of what goes on.

as long as you dont mind having a not very good understanding of what goes on.
 
     besides, theres just as much weed and speed at your local high school as there is at the RAVE.

[Sage 703]

as long as you dont mind having a not very good understanding of what goes on.
   

again, I think you're missing my point.  I'm defending raves as being just another music event.  Ones operated illicitly are going to get busted, just like a house party with a band that is too loud or any other event that is operated illicitly.  Ones with the right permit and license should be allowed to continue just as any other event would, with the same kind of security and police presence that would be warranted at any other event of comparable size.
 
 And again, I'm waiting for somebody to tell me where my understanding is flawed.  I've been to plenty of music events that aren't raves - primarily in the jam band scene - that have a lot of people taking drugs or alcohol for the same reason that they take them at a rave - to further enjoy the music, to become physically involved in the music that is happening, to heighten sensitivity to light, etc.  What is so significantly different that is causing me to have a mistaken understanding?

They were wearing their ballcaps backwards and askew.  It wasn't the National Guard...it was the fashion police.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by Venerable Bede:
 
 as for jam bands, i don't think many people here would lose any sleep if the govt. wanted to shut that scene down.      

thats the reason RAVEs get busted!!! you hit the nail on the head.  
 
  because even though the promoters and everyone involved made all the proper arrangements for lighting, security, insurance etc... these promoters were basically loners and not paying greasing anyones palms. they werent active members in the community, didnt donate to charity, they probably didnt know people in city council, so therefore, shutting them down didnt piss anyone off but the people attending the party!!!  it made the cops look good and the people there look bad.  perfect situation.
 
   now if some big company sponsers a RAVE, do you think it gets shut down? nada. cause said company doesnt need that bad publicity and the cops know damn well they would get some kind of crazy lawsuit and be dragged through the dirt if they tried to raid the Sony Playstation Rave.
 
   its not about music, or drugs or permits or anything else.  its about politics and power and if the RAVERS werent listening to weird music and doing crazy drugs, the police would just find some other reason to bust down the door.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by callat703:
   the jam band scene -  

no one i know that has participated in both raves and jam bands has ever likened them to one another.

[ggw]

Originally posted by callat703:
 What is so significantly different that is causing me to have a mistaken understanding?

Perhaps the greater number of minors at raves.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by sonickteam4:
  correction:  most raves  that get busted are done ad hoc, under the radar, without proper permits and attention to security (like proper lighting and crowd control).
 
 
   when i was going to these things, until 1995 or so , none of them were legal, but after that, the ones with permits rarely ever got shut down.

True, but they are still ad hoc, in a business sense.  Even the legal raves couldn't sustain the business model that supports the 9:30, for example, because they don't go the extra mile to build a reputation in the community.
 
 But then again, that was never the point of a rave to begin with.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
   

Originally posted by callat703:
 What is so significantly different that is causing me to have a mistaken understanding?

Perhaps the greater number of minors at raves. [/b]

than at a rock concert?

[ggw]

Originally posted by sonickteam4:
   

Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
   

Originally posted by callat703:
 What is so significantly different that is causing me to have a mistaken understanding?

Perhaps the greater number of minors at raves. [/b]

than at a rock concert? [/b]

Than at a jam band festival.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by vansmack:
  because they don't go the extra mile to build a reputation in the community.
 
 But then again, that was never the point of a rave to begin with.

correct. thats what i said in my more later post. its the frustration one has when you try to break the mold of society and get kicked in the head for it.
 
   as far as i am concerned, its cool.  I was at the right age to begin going to raves when they were tiny little 50 person gatherings and watched them turn into huge parties.....we were waving our middle fingers in the air of authority the whole time and sooner or later they came and stopped us.  we all knew it was going to happen and i dont think anyone that was going to these things for 5-10 years was shocked OR mad so much when shit started hitting the fan.
 
   i certainly didnt.

[ggw]

Ravers are nothing more than a bunch of adolescents looking for an excuse to get fucked up on some drugs and get laid. Ravers are no different than the new age "Deadheads" (or pardon me, "Phish-heads") that wander around America for the exact same things...sex and drugs! But instead of nasty hippie chicks putting out for weed, it's now nasty-assed rave girls (or guys, I-Mockery should be should be fair) putting out for ecstasy and K!