Author Topic: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 31122 times)

sweetcell

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2013, 12:12:34 pm »
Even still, they are made in abundance.

IPAs are being made in abundance because that's what people are buying.  if tastes shifted tomorrow towards another style, brewers would be making those instead.

people get into craft beer because they want flavor and one of the strongest tasting beers you can get is a hoppy IPA. hence their popularity, IMO.

I think if I buy beer for home consumption it will be German Beers.  I appreciate the purity laws and I have no idea what other people are putting in their beers. 

that's a false fear, IMO.  the big megabrewers are the only ones you need to worry about what goes in their products.  you know that blue moon that you like?  it wouldn't pass the Reinheitsgebot (german purity law) because they add orange peel and coriander.  hell, even wheat isn't allowed so hefeweizens aren't compliant.  shows how stupid and anachronistic that "law" is.  it made sense back in the 1500's because people were putting sh*t in beer that was unhealthy or deadly.  today's it strikes me as something that people get all unnecessarily amped up about. "look at me, i comply with the purity law!!!!".  who cares.  anyone who refuses to brew with ingredients like oatmeal, rye or honey just because of some german's lack of science 600 years ago is an idiot.

As for IPA's it will never be a favorite of mine.  I don't like that much Hops. 

james ford did unto me as i am about to do unto you, so remember this: you will eat these words in a year or two.  your tolerance and craving for hops will happen.  it's inevitable.  vinnie chilurzo, from russian river, coined the term "lupulin threshold shift" (see page 4 of this PDF).

And it is cheaper for small breweries to make IPA's than Lagers.  It might take more hops but the set-up costs to make lagers is very high.  American Mass-produced Lagers are cheaper mostly because they use cheap ingredients including corn and rice fillers. 

The costs aren't even close for a small brewery:

"For a craft brewery to produce 10,000 barrels of beer,  it would cost £150,000. Ten thousand barrels of lager would cost £1million,? he says, as he leads  me around Meantime?s brewery on a south London industrial estate. The brewery is  currently being expanded to meet demand."

the problem with that last quote is that he's mixing fixed and variable costs.  that brewery is already set up for ales, so making an IPA only involves cost of ingredients (which are higher than lagers' ingredients).  it would cost him a million to make the same amount of lager, because he needs to spend 900,000 on new equipment.  that quote, out of context, could lead someone to believe that it costs almost 7 times more to brew a lager.  that simply isn't true, if only because he hasn't included his fixed costs to make ale.

it all depends what you invest in - $600k up-front to make more expensive per-barrel ales, or $900k to make cheaper per-barrel lagers.  and when you're talking fixed vs. variable, you need to take into consideration what time period are you looking at.  (numbers made up for illustrative purposes, and some gross generalizations were made... you can make a cheap cream ale and a very expensive dopplebock lager)
<sig>

atomicfront

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2013, 12:45:07 pm »
I disagree with hops and flavors.  All you taste is the bitterness of the hops and all you smell is the aroma of the hops.  It overrides all the other flavors in beer.  If I go up to Maine and have a blueberry ale I can taste the malt and I can taste the fruit.  I can smell the aromas that the yeast put off.  IPA's are a fad.  It will switch to something else.  I don't care about fads when drinking beer.

People like the taste of different thiings.  I started drinking IPA's and I liked them at first but then I got bored with them.  I doubt I will go back to them. 

Everyone has enviromental and genetic reasons for liking things.  Our sense of smell and our sense of taste differ.  I lived in Bavaria as a child and I had a Bavarian Mother and my family had cases of beer delivered to the house weekly from the local brewery.  And I sipped the beer from time to time. I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   

And live is too short to drink only one type of beer.

And hefeweizens are complient.  I had two different hefeweizen's last night and both said they complied with the German purity law.  It was modified at sometime to allow wheat beers. 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 12:46:48 pm by atomicfront »

hutch

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2013, 12:47:24 pm »
I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   


James Ford would only appreciate whatever the ratings site told him to...the guy has no personal taste or individuality.

James Ford

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2013, 12:55:44 pm »
Totally agree with you on that one. If my wife had her way, we'd only drink hoppy IPA's. She doesn't get her way all the time, so instead our stash is filled with more styles than I have time to type here. No pilsners though.  ;D

I love it that my favorite style of German beer (weizenbock) is an ale.

And this thread should somehow be merged with the beer thread.



   
And live is too short to drink only one type of beer.
 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 12:59:01 pm by James Ford »

hutch

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2013, 01:03:49 pm »
Totally agree with you on that one. If my wife had her way, we'd only drink hoppy IPA's. She doesn't get her way all the time, so instead our stash is filled with more styles than I have time to type here. No pilsners though.  ;D

I love it that my favorite style of German beer (weizenbock) is an ale.

And this thread should somehow be merged with the beer thread.



   
And live is too short to drink only one type of beer.
 


definetly! IPAs aren't the only beers that get high ratings!

James Ford

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2013, 01:39:27 pm »
Actually, if you were to research the music I most listen to (Americana and middle of the road indie stuff), you'd find that most scores pretty ho-hum ratings. But go ahead and believe whatever you want.

I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   


James Ford would only appreciate whatever the ratings site told him to...the guy has no personal taste or individuality.

hutch

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2013, 01:48:10 pm »
Actually, if you were to research the music I most listen to (Americana and middle of the road indie stuff), you'd find that most scores pretty ho-hum ratings. But go ahead and believe whatever you want.

I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   


James Ford would only appreciate whatever the ratings site told him to...the guy has no personal taste or individuality.

ha ha...yeah... Iris Dement gets a hohum rating..

don't think so but you know what? I don't look at ratings.. I listen to what I want..

James Ford

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2013, 01:54:04 pm »
My first Iris Dement purchase (first album on cassette in 1992) predated my internet use by several year, but nice that you're keeping tabs on me.  ;)


 
Actually, if you were to research the music I most listen to (Americana and middle of the road indie stuff), you'd find that most scores pretty ho-hum ratings. But go ahead and believe whatever you want.

I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   


James Ford would only appreciate whatever the ratings site told him to...the guy has no personal taste or individuality.

ha ha...yeah... Iris Dement gets a hohum rating..

don't think so but you know what? I don't look at ratings.. I listen to what I want..

hutch

  • Guest
Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2013, 02:12:25 pm »
My first Iris Dement purchase (first album on cassette in 1992) predated my internet use by several year, but nice that you're keeping tabs on me.  ;)


 
Actually, if you were to research the music I most listen to (Americana and middle of the road indie stuff), you'd find that most scores pretty ho-hum ratings. But go ahead and believe whatever you want.

I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   


James Ford would only appreciate whatever the ratings site told him to...the guy has no personal taste or individuality.

ha ha...yeah... Iris Dement gets a hohum rating..

don't think so but you know what? I don't look at ratings.. I listen to what I want..

so what? so you felt gratified she got good ratings and kept buying her stuff? so it confirmed to you that she was good?

I'm not keeping "tabs" on you dude.. but I been on this board a few years now and nobody resorts to dropping ratings more than you.. be it beer or music... and thats fine...  but it means you live by other people's opinions and that is sad.

to say  "the aggregate data don't lie" as you did is poppycock....





James Ford

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2013, 02:22:20 pm »
What exactly is wrong with saying:

"I like this album or beer, and you should too. Look at how much/many other critics/craft beer drinkers like it too."

 or

 "I think that sucks, and look the critics/other beer drinkers seem to agree with me."

when you're writing to an audience of internet strangers?








My first Iris Dement purchase (first album on cassette in 1992) predated my internet use by several year, but nice that you're keeping tabs on me.  ;)


 
Actually, if you were to research the music I most listen to (Americana and middle of the road indie stuff), you'd find that most scores pretty ho-hum ratings. But go ahead and believe whatever you want.

I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   


James Ford would only appreciate whatever the ratings site told him to...the guy has no personal taste or individuality.

ha ha...yeah... Iris Dement gets a hohum rating..

don't think so but you know what? I don't look at ratings.. I listen to what I want..

so what? so you felt gratified she got good ratings and kept buying her stuff? so it confirmed to you that she was good?

I'm not keeping "tabs" on you dude.. but I been on this board a few years now and nobody resorts to dropping ratings more than you.. be it beer or music... and thats fine...  but it means you live by other people's opinions and that is sad.

to say  "the aggregate data don't lie" as you did is poppycock....






hutch

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2013, 02:27:24 pm »
What exactly is wrong with saying:

"I like this album or beer, and you should too. Look at how much/many other critics/craft beer drinkers like it too."

 or

 "I think that sucks, and look the critics/other beer drinkers seem to agree with me."

when you're writing to an audience of internet strangers?








My first Iris Dement purchase (first album on cassette in 1992) predated my internet use by several year, but nice that you're keeping tabs on me.  ;)


 
Actually, if you were to research the music I most listen to (Americana and middle of the road indie stuff), you'd find that most scores pretty ho-hum ratings. But go ahead and believe whatever you want.

I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   


James Ford would only appreciate whatever the ratings site told him to...the guy has no personal taste or individuality.

ha ha...yeah... Iris Dement gets a hohum rating..

don't think so but you know what? I don't look at ratings.. I listen to what I want..

so what? so you felt gratified she got good ratings and kept buying her stuff? so it confirmed to you that she was good?

I'm not keeping "tabs" on you dude.. but I been on this board a few years now and nobody resorts to dropping ratings more than you.. be it beer or music... and thats fine...  but it means you live by other people's opinions and that is sad.

to say  "the aggregate data don't lie" as you did is poppycock....







seriously? you're going to keep arguing about this?

the problem is you're really only interested in trying stuff out if the critics like it.. and then to top it off you tell us they must be right... the aggregate data don't lie..

stop paying so much attention to what others say and just pay attention to what you think.


i know your type man...."OH the reviewers are going ape-shit over this album.. i must listen to it!"

weak.

atomicfront

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2013, 02:30:49 pm »
What exactly is wrong with saying:

"I like this album or beer, and you should too. Look at how much/many other critics/craft beer drinkers like it too."

 or

 "I think that sucks, and look the critics/other beer drinkers seem to agree with me."

when you're writing to an audience of internet strangers?








My first Iris Dement purchase (first album on cassette in 1992) predated my internet use by several year, but nice that you're keeping tabs on me.  ;)


 
Actually, if you were to research the music I most listen to (Americana and middle of the road indie stuff), you'd find that most scores pretty ho-hum ratings. But go ahead and believe whatever you want.

I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   


James Ford would only appreciate whatever the ratings site told him to...the guy has no personal taste or individuality.

ha ha...yeah... Iris Dement gets a hohum rating..

don't think so but you know what? I don't look at ratings.. I listen to what I want..

so what? so you felt gratified she got good ratings and kept buying her stuff? so it confirmed to you that she was good?

I'm not keeping "tabs" on you dude.. but I been on this board a few years now and nobody resorts to dropping ratings more than you.. be it beer or music... and thats fine...  but it means you live by other people's opinions and that is sad.

to say  "the aggregate data don't lie" as you did is poppycock....






Why do I care what other people I don't know like in beer or music.  If we went by that we would drink bud light.  As it is liked by so many more people than the guys who post on beer advocate like.   Same with music I don't care how many people like a band.  So I should listen to Jay-z because everyone else does?  

I like what I enjoy. Post what you enjoy and if I like some of the beers you like than I might try some I know.  But if you are basing your beer tastes on what Beer Advocate states why even post anything.  I could go to Beer Advocate directly.  

Like David Lee Roth said most music critics like Elvis Costello because most music critics look like Elvis Costello.  

James Ford

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2013, 02:37:40 pm »
When you go to Max's and see a list of 100 beers on draft, how are you going to find the four or five that are likely to be the real gems?

If you want to drink all 100 beers to see which ones are the best, go right ahead. I'm going to use the internet to help me whittle the selection down and make my choice from there.

What exactly is wrong with saying:

"I like this album or beer, and you should too. Look at how much/many other critics/craft beer drinkers like it too."

 or

 "I think that sucks, and look the critics/other beer drinkers seem to agree with me."

when you're writing to an audience of internet strangers?








My first Iris Dement purchase (first album on cassette in 1992) predated my internet use by several year, but nice that you're keeping tabs on me.  ;)


 
Actually, if you were to research the music I most listen to (Americana and middle of the road indie stuff), you'd find that most scores pretty ho-hum ratings. But go ahead and believe whatever you want.

I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   


James Ford would only appreciate whatever the ratings site told him to...the guy has no personal taste or individuality.

ha ha...yeah... Iris Dement gets a hohum rating..

don't think so but you know what? I don't look at ratings.. I listen to what I want..

so what? so you felt gratified she got good ratings and kept buying her stuff? so it confirmed to you that she was good?

I'm not keeping "tabs" on you dude.. but I been on this board a few years now and nobody resorts to dropping ratings more than you.. be it beer or music... and thats fine...  but it means you live by other people's opinions and that is sad.

to say  "the aggregate data don't lie" as you did is poppycock....






Why do I care what other people I don't know like in beer or music.  If we went by that we would drink bud light.  As it is liked by so many more people than the guys who post on beer advocate like.   Same with music I don't care how many people like a band.  So I should listen to Jay-z because everyone else does?  

I like what I enjoy. Post what you enjoy and if I like some of the beers you like than I might try some I know.  But if you are basing your beer tastes on what Beer Advocate states why even post anything.  I could go to Beer Advocate directly.  

Like David Lee Roth said most music critics like Elvis Costello because most music critics look like Elvis Costello.  

hutch

  • Guest
Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #58 on: April 12, 2013, 02:46:18 pm »
When you go to Max's and see a list of 100 beers on draft, how are you going to find the four or five that are likely to be the real gems?

If you want to drink all 100 beers to see which ones are the best, go right ahead. I'm going to use the internet to help me whittle the selection down and make my choice from there.

What exactly is wrong with saying:

"I like this album or beer, and you should too. Look at how much/many other critics/craft beer drinkers like it too."

 or

 "I think that sucks, and look the critics/other beer drinkers seem to agree with me."

when you're writing to an audience of internet strangers?








My first Iris Dement purchase (first album on cassette in 1992) predated my internet use by several year, but nice that you're keeping tabs on me.  ;)


 
Actually, if you were to research the music I most listen to (Americana and middle of the road indie stuff), you'd find that most scores pretty ho-hum ratings. But go ahead and believe whatever you want.

I  am sure my evinronment and genetics makes me appreciate German beers more than James Ford would.   


James Ford would only appreciate whatever the ratings site told him to...the guy has no personal taste or individuality.

ha ha...yeah... Iris Dement gets a hohum rating..

don't think so but you know what? I don't look at ratings.. I listen to what I want..

so what? so you felt gratified she got good ratings and kept buying her stuff? so it confirmed to you that she was good?

I'm not keeping "tabs" on you dude.. but I been on this board a few years now and nobody resorts to dropping ratings more than you.. be it beer or music... and thats fine...  but it means you live by other people's opinions and that is sad.

to say  "the aggregate data don't lie" as you did is poppycock....






Why do I care what other people I don't know like in beer or music.  If we went by that we would drink bud light.  As it is liked by so many more people than the guys who post on beer advocate like.   Same with music I don't care how many people like a band.  So I should listen to Jay-z because everyone else does?  

I like what I enjoy. Post what you enjoy and if I like some of the beers you like than I might try some I know.  But if you are basing your beer tastes on what Beer Advocate states why even post anything.  I could go to Beer Advocate directly.  

Like David Lee Roth said most music critics like Elvis Costello because most music critics look like Elvis Costello.  

wrong. you dont' use the internet to whittle down your choice. .. you use it to VALIDATE your choice and walk around feeling superior about it...

its poor dude.



i am gay and i like cats

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Re: Nats are the champions!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2013, 02:50:29 pm »
im not sure what is worse . . . this arguement, or the fact that it is taking place in this thread.  or in fact, this thread.