Author Topic: The 2020 thread....  (Read 85040 times)

nkotb

  • Member
  • Posts: 5520
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #780 on: July 10, 2019, 01:00:49 pm »
You'er 100% wrong. She should run as a full fledged communist if she wants to win a red state

Totally


But saying Mitch hasnít done enough is not blue dog itís wack dog

I mean come on!

NKOTB lives in Bernie fantasyland

vansmack

  • Member
  • Posts: 18975
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #781 on: July 10, 2019, 04:16:51 pm »
With out Mitch...this country would be soo different

Merrick Garland.

He will forever be on the GOP Mount Rushmore for that move alone.
27>34

Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #782 on: July 10, 2019, 05:40:10 pm »
  It's just another Joe Manchin, and fuck Joe Manchin.
So I'd take Joe Manchin 2.0 over Mitch any f'n day, any f'n day
I'm not a big fan of joe, but you have to play to your constituents
speaking of good old joe...did some pretty liberal thing today
"Days after the United States women's soccer team won their fourth World Cup, a US senator introduced a bill Tuesday that would prevent the use of federal funding for the 2026 men's World Cup until the US Soccer Federation agrees to equal pay for the women's and men's teams.

The bill, penned by Sen. Joe Manchin, a West Virginia Democrat, would prohibit the use of federal funds that would otherwise be provided to support host cities, local and state organizations, US Soccer, CONCACAF, and FIFA when the US cohosts the men's World Cup in 2026
LAMF

Julian, Adroit TASTEMAKER

  • Member
  • Posts: 24286
  • Hall of Fame Poster, Certified Weblebrity
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #783 on: July 10, 2019, 06:51:20 pm »
  It's just another Joe Manchin, and fuck Joe Manchin.
So I'd take Joe Manchin 2.0 over Mitch any f'n day, any f'n day
I'm not a big fan of joe, but you have to play to your constituents
speaking of good old joe...did some pretty liberal thing today
"Days after the United States women's soccer team won their fourth World Cup, a US senator introduced a bill Tuesday that would prevent the use of federal funding for the 2026 men's World Cup until the US Soccer Federation agrees to equal pay for the women's and men's teams.

The bill, penned by Sen. Joe Manchin, a West Virginia Democrat, would prohibit the use of federal funds that would otherwise be provided to support host cities, local and state organizations, US Soccer, CONCACAF, and FIFA when the US cohosts the men's World Cup in 2026

I am one hundred percent in favor of this. I am also one hundred percent in favor of the GOP digging in their heels and refusing to kowtow, thereby de facto ending the US National Teams. #JuliansAmericaLongPlay
LVMH

bitter much

  • Member
  • Posts: 20592
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #784 on: July 11, 2019, 08:55:20 am »
Can you guys explain to me the problem with asking people if they are Americans on a census of Americans? I mean what is so terrible about trying to count the number of Americans? I thought that was the whole point of a census particularly to be used to apportion representation and distribute resources


I must be missing something

gavroche

  • Member
  • Posts: 432
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #785 on: July 11, 2019, 09:09:36 am »
Can you guys explain to me the problem with asking people if they are Americans on a census of Americans? I mean what is so terrible about trying to count the number of Americans? I thought that was the whole point of a census particularly to be used to apportion representation and distribute resources


I must be missing something

Voting is, and has always been, done as a proportion of people, not citizens.  (Think of the 3/5ths compromise).  This is part of a play by the Republicans to do undo that, and make districts based on citizens.  This impacts not only voting power, but also resource allocation. Anywhere with a University, or a large segment of foreigners would be disadvantaged.  This is largely cities.

The other thing that the citizenship question does is that it will make it less likely that Hispanic citizens will fill out the form because of the legitimate fear that the information could be shared with ICE.  Anyone living in a household that has both legals and illegals in it would be unlikely to fill out the census, thus skewing the data to underestimate Hispanics.

If you want to talk about full bore election reform to make it more fair/representative (like getting rid of the Senate) then going to citizenship might make sense.  Making that change in a vacuum, however, does not.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 09:15:07 am by gavroche »

bitter much

  • Member
  • Posts: 20592
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #786 on: July 11, 2019, 09:18:39 am »
But until 1950 the census asked if you were a citizen?

if we are worried the information is going to be shared with ICE then the problem is not the asking of the question itself


I really think itís crazy to say a country cannot count its citizens...that I thought was the point...


And as an American who checks off Latino I am sick and tired of Hispanics not voting or participating using every excuse in the book. Latino voting rates are abysmal. Most Latinos here are US citizens but they just donít vote.

This whole issue is just another example of democrats being totally out of touch. I mean really? You canít ask a person for purposes of a census wether they are a citizen?

So hypothetically if a state had million illegals they would get more representation in the House? Districts with more illegals counted get more representatives and money?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 09:25:20 am by hutch »

gavroche

  • Member
  • Posts: 432
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #787 on: July 11, 2019, 09:32:53 am »
But until 1950 the census asked if you were a citizen?

if we are worried the information is going to be shared with ICE then the problem is not the asking of the question itself


I really think itís crazy to say a country cannot count its citizens...that I thought was the point...


And as an American who checks off Latino I am sick and tired of Hispanics not voting or participating using every excuse in the book. Latino voting rates are abysmal. Most Latinos here are US citizens but they just donít vote.

This whole issue is just another example of democrats being totally out of touch. I mean really? You canít ask a person for purposes of a census wether they are a citizen?

So hypothetically if a state had million illegals they would get more representation in the House? Districts with more illegals counted get more representatives and money?

Just because something happened in 1950 doesn't make it right.  And the climate is quite a bit different right now.

I don't know your situation, but Latino voting rates are not low by accident.  They are low because one of the major political parties see their success as dependent on it and so they take actions to make it hard to vote.  It's not like the US doesn't have a proud history of putting up voting barriers.

Finally, illegal immigrants, or folks in mixed house holds have very legitimate concerns about how that information is being used.  Trump has broken down silos to make it easier to deport people left and right.  Why would you feel secure in giving out your status? 

gavroche

  • Member
  • Posts: 432
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #788 on: July 11, 2019, 09:33:41 am »

So hypothetically if a state had million illegals they would get more representation in the House? Districts with more illegals counted get more representatives and money?

It's not just illegals.  It's also green card holders, people on student visas, etc... This was the same thing that happened when only rich white land owners could vote, and then before women had the vote, and of course the South got representation based on slaves who couldn't vote.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 09:47:11 am by gavroche »

bitter much

  • Member
  • Posts: 20592
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #789 on: July 11, 2019, 09:39:02 am »
I hear what you are saying but I see nothing wrong with asking. That is the point of a census.

Another terrible hill to die on by democrats.

gavroche

  • Member
  • Posts: 432
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #790 on: July 11, 2019, 09:42:53 am »
I hear what you are saying but I see nothing wrong with asking. That is the point of a census.

Another terrible hill to die on by democrats.

This is an existential threat to the Dems and their ability to hold the House or the White House.  The citizenship question is the spear of a 5 year plan by the R's to remake the electorate and undo demographic shifts. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/census-citizenship-question-hofeller.html

nkotb

  • Member
  • Posts: 5520
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #791 on: July 11, 2019, 09:56:04 am »
I'm starting to think that maybe hutch hasn't thought critically about any of the things he's posting here...

I hear what you are saying but I see nothing wrong with asking. That is the point of a census.

Another terrible hill to die on by democrats.

This is an existential threat to the Dems and their ability to hold the House or the White House.  The citizenship question is the spear of a 5 year plan by the R's to remake the electorate and undo demographic shifts. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/census-citizenship-question-hofeller.html

bitter much

  • Member
  • Posts: 20592
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #792 on: July 11, 2019, 10:09:43 am »
Trump is going to ride this all the way to the White House

There just isnít anything wrong with asking a person if they are a citizen

All the extrapolation about what that one question being answered could lead to is not reality. It could happen I suppose but to go from that to saying because it could happen we cannot be asked if we are citizens is crazy

Letís count Americans in a census of Americans

bitter much

  • Member
  • Posts: 20592
Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #793 on: July 11, 2019, 10:15:53 am »
Anyways gavroche appreciate your thoughts

Re: The 2020 thread....
« Reply #794 on: July 11, 2019, 10:51:35 am »
I hear what you are saying but I see nothing wrong with asking. That is the point of a census.

Another terrible hill to die on by democrats.
So we now have documents that the whole idea the R's pushed this forward as they could see it would give them a clear advantage and hurt Dems
Mr. Hofeller ... wrote a study in 2015 concluding that adding a citizenship question to the census would allow Republicans to draft even more extreme gerrymandered maps to stymie Democrats


it's just like gerrymandering and the Electoral college, they are figuring out ways to keep leaning it to give them a minority majority
so there is some ethical point I get you are trying to make, but they don't care about ethics, they just want to make it so they can create an unfair advantage to one political party by pulling all these stunts
LAMF