Originally posted by sweetcell:
i'm with you on that one - the christian tradition is part of what this country is. people who object to a person's right to display a manger are barking up the wrong tree.
but a christmas tree, and other symbols, doesn't oppress me. same can't be said for limiting my access to potentially life-saving technologies, birth control, the subjugation of science in the name of belief, etc. that's the shit i object to - and falls under the realm of public policy. let's not mix respect of religion and its authority to dictate my well-being and freedom. logically, IMO, one cannot demand that government stay out of the private sphere and then grant the church that right.
ok, that's what i thought. . and i should have made that clearer in my responses. . .i would agree that religion should not play a role in setting policy- i waver, however, in the role morals and ethics play in those determinations. . .and i would agree that morals and ethics are too often voiced and grounded in overtly religious tones.
as for doom, i completely disagree, the u.s. is most definately a christian country, in fact, the most christian in the history of the world; look at the money, look at our founding documents, look at our pledge, look at almost every single federal building. . .our country was founded by "christians," (i know, the founding fathers were deists, but i'm also including the pilgrims in that statement), using christian ideals, remember the declaration of independence? it references a creator-god for giving humans our "inalienable" rights. . .how is that anything but christian?
there is no separation of church and state in the constitution. . .it's very simple. the constitution means that the government shall not create a state religion, ala the church of england and the english government, which is very different than keeping religion out of government, which is, in essence what secularists have been striving for...
i'll give you an example- the first europeans to come to california were franciscan missionaries who founded 21 missions, up and down the state, from san diego to sonoma in the late 1700s and early 1800s (other than for military reasons, such as the founding of san diego, monterey and san francisco, missions are often the foundation those cities, such as santa clara and sonoma). today, many of these missions are in terrible shape due to a number of circumstances such as age, erosion and earthquakes. several years ago, sen. boxer was able to appropriate money to go to the upkeep of these missions, including some for seismic retrofitting. the americans united for separation of church and state threatened to sue the government over those funds simply because they were going to help these missions. many of these missions no longer function as houses of worship, and more than that, these are historical buildings of great importance to the creation of the state of california. . .it's this extreme devotion to secularism that annoys me to no end. . .
