Author Topic: Ticketmaster debate - again  (Read 15277 times)

kosmo vinyl

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2004, 12:35:00 pm »
i dunno i'm probably talking out my ase as usual... regardless it's better than a broker based system which was in place prior to advent of the companies that became ticketmaster.
T.Rex

sonickteam2

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2004, 12:37:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Skeeter:
   
Quote
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
  most companies don't charge extra for using credit cards because it's a cost of doing business.  but since ticketmaster dosen't actually own the tickets they are selling, they would never make any profit if they didn't recover the fee from the buyer to process the credit card.
But isn't this fee something like 2%?  On a $20 ticket, that would be about 40 cents.  TM is charging 10-times that much. [/b]
everyone can make a point for everything.  legally ticketmaster isnt doing anything wrong. but morally it just sucks.  doing a percentage of the ticket price would be nice, but wouldnt it really cost the same to process a $2 ticket as it would a $200 ticket?
 
   its just damn unfortunate and i would like to NEVER use ticketmaster. but because so many people do...that if i dont buy tickets as soon as they go on sale or whenver i have time, they often sell out before i get around to buying.
 
   i just sorta wish they would add SOME of those charges in with the ticket price.
 
  I would feel better paying $60 for a $50 ticket with $10 service fees, than i would paying $60 for a $40 ticket and $20 of service fees, wouldnt you?

kosmo vinyl

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2004, 12:58:00 pm »
then people would complain about the price of tickets...
T.Rex

sonickteam2

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2004, 01:08:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
  then people would complain about the price of tickets...
of course, but at least they would feel cheated by the band and venues, not the ticket company.
   
     its like gasoline. probably $1 of your $2.06 goes to buying the gas.  the rest goes to the gas station, the oil company, the govt, taxes, freight charges, etc etc.  but they dont say "gas is $1.09 with a $.48 service fee per gallon and a $.29 convenience charge per gallon and a $.19 fuel pump charge per gallon, etc"  
    then you would be bitching out Exxon and BP instead of just being like "man, gas prices are high"
 
    seems like Ticketmaster would want to do that so people would stop hating them so much.

Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2004, 01:32:00 pm »
One thing people are saying is how they're fine with a "reasonable fee" but not Ticketmaster's fee. How is their fee not reasonable? If Ticketmaster will charge me less in fees then it'd cost me to drive to the venue (and take off work) and buy a ticket there, then certainly it's reasonable. In fact, I'd maintain that if I went to the venue in that situation, I'd be at least unreasonable if not idiotic. Just because you all don't like the justification of what the fee is for - tough cookies. They can call it a "line our pockets" fee and I'll still pay it if it's my best option.
 
 All this "the fees are too high, it should be xx%" nonsense is just that - nonsense. You all run an international ticketing agency? You know the costs associated with it? Show me your business plan for getting by on less. This company saves you time (and in many cases money) by allowing you to buy tickets from home, and you're mad this business wants to make some $$ doing it. Shudder, gasp.

Guiny

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2004, 02:51:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by elj:
   They can call it a "line our pockets" fee and I'll still pay it if it's my best option.
 
I bet if they called it a "I'm a dumbass" fee, you'd be the first in line.

Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2004, 03:01:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Rob_Gee_a.k.a _Guiny:
  I bet if they called it a "I'm a dumbass" fee, you'd be the first in line.
What a  mature response. I'm impressed by your skill in refuting the points I made.

markie

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2004, 03:09:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by elj:
  This company saves you time (and in many cases money) by allowing you to buy tickets from home, and you're mad this business wants to make some $$ doing it. Shudder, gasp.
The fact that ticket master charges service charges on each ticket, even though purchasing say 10 tickets is a single transaction....
 
 The fact that the service charge increases as the ticket price increases.
 
 The fact that you are hit by not one, but 3 individual charges by ticketmaster.
 
 The fact that ticketmaster routinely makes 1/3 of the price of the ticket.
 
 
 Personally I dont think Ticketmaster is a great deal. But I am rarely driven to moan about it. For you I will make an exception.

vansmack

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2004, 03:22:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by elj:
  What a  mature response. I'm impressed by your skill in refuting the points I made.
I Like Guiny, so I'll give it a shot.
 
 Many people think that ticketmaster is in fact breaking the law.  They have been sued on the basis that they have a monopoly and that they were anti-competitve (most notably, by Pearl Jam).
 
 The Justice Department ruled that Ticketmaster did not have a monopoly because no one was trying to enter the market.  Good luck to anyone trying.  For those that are old enough to remember Ticketron, the only real threat to Ticketmaster, they were forced out of the marktet by Ticketmaster.  After all of the contracts were set with vendors (records stores, etc.), there was no way there could be a viable competitor.
 
 The anti-competition practices that allowed TM to charge outrageous fees were then blamed on the vendors, who needed to make money.  The band (or the record company) and the venue made money on the ticket price, the vendor and TM made money on the service charges.  But guess what - very few people buy tickets at vendors any longer.  The internet has changed all of that.  So has TM reduced it's fees to consumers?  Not a bit.  Their percentages have actually increased.  The good news is that the internet has brought a few competitiors back into the market, but by agreements with Clear Channel and venues, small competitors like tickets.com are left out of the bigger picture, and TM still rakes in fees that were once questioned by the Justice Department with out the vendor excuse TM used in 1994.  
 
 So thank TM all you want for making tickets available to you without having to go to the venue, but I think the issues of Monopoly and anti-competitve practices should be revisited really soon.
 
 The consumer should not be punished for wanting to enjoy entertainment.  Yes, all of us joining forces and refusing to buy tickets through TM would make a difference, but why should be made to suffer by their practices - we should be allowed an alternative - many actually.
27>34

Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2004, 03:23:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by mark e smith:
  The fact that ticket master charges service charges on each ticket, even though purchasing say 10 tickets is a single transaction....
 
 The fact that the service charge increases as the ticket price increases.
 
 The fact that you are hit by not one, but 3 individual charges by ticketmaster.
 
 The fact that ticketmaster routinely makes 1/3 of the price of the ticket.
 
You're not addressing at all the crux of my argument: what they give you in return in many cases cannot be acquired cheaper. If I want to buy a ticket to an event at the MCI Center, and I live in Richmond, I have to drive 2 hours each way, pay for gas, and that's not taking in account the waste of 4 hours of my life. And I'd save what? $15 for a set of two tickets? Ticketmaster from a financial standpoint is clearly in my best interest.
 
 I can understand that people don't like paying more money, and I don't either, but from where I sit, it beats the alternatives in many cases (driving to the venue if it's far away, or not going to the show altogether). If it's not worth it to you, fine, that's your perrogative, and I'm not disagreeing with your choice. Or, if the venues close, of course we'd all go there instead of using ticketmaster. My point is I think it's overboard to act like ticketmaster's capitalism is "morally wrong" as one person put it. Everyone who offers a service tries to make some money off it, and they all have their own business model, and comparing this service industry's model to another's is counterintuitive. If the service is worth it to you, then buy it, if not, then don't, but please don't act like it's a "moral stand" or that a company is evil for providing you with a choice.

Bags

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2004, 03:25:00 pm »
Ditto to Markie's points.  I'll pay it if I need to, I support competitive markets (which ticket sales agencies does not represent, by the way), and I'll complain if I want to because it seems unreasonable.  Much of Ticketmaster's M.O. is just not sensible.  But, they have a virtual monopoly, so we deal, but we can think they're the friggin' devil if we want.
 
 Just wait until Clear Channel buys Ticketmaster.  The meek will inherit the earth -- YEAH, RIGHT.

markie

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2004, 03:27:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by elj:
  that a company is evil for providing you with a choice.
I find that the company is evil when I dont have a choice, such is the case with pre-sales in which the show will sell out and when tickets are not readily available any other way, say for lollapalooza.
 
 But Vansmack did a much better job of addressing the points than I.

Bags

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2004, 03:33:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by elj:
 You're not addressing at all the crux of my argument: what they give you in return in many cases cannot be acquired cheaper. If I want to buy a ticket to an event at the MCI Center, and I live in Richmond, I have to drive 2 hours each way, pay for gas, and that's not taking in account the waste of 4 hours of my life. And I'd save what? $15 for a set of two tickets? Ticketmaster from a financial standpoint is clearly in my best interest.
So because I live 15 minutes away and it would only cost me $1.04 in gas to go to the venue, my charges should be cheaper?  How do you measure convenience -- based on your residence in Richmond, or mine in Woodley Park?
 
 Yes, they charge a "convenience fee," and they're getting it, but that does not mean they aren't overcharging.  As Smackie's pointed out, Ticketmaster is not subject to rational competitive forces that keep markets fair and level the playing field.  Whether or not this is legal (at this point) is to be decided by the courts, but as a participant in an emerging competitive market, I can tell you that Ticketmaster is not subject to sufficient competitive pressures to keep them in check.  In other markets, that would call for mitigation schemes.

Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2004, 03:36:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by vansmack:
  The consumer should not be punished for wanting to enjoy entertainment.  Yes, all of us joining forces and refusing to buy tickets through TM would make a difference, but why should be made to suffer by there practices - we should be allowed an alternative - many actually.
I agree with that. I do think of Ticketmaster as a choice, one of mainly two we currently have: ticketmaster or venue's box office. I, as I'm sure the rest of you do, weigh the options and chosse which of those two works best for me for each concert. I don't really see tickets.com or any of the smaller ticket brokers getting increased access to see tickets to venues making ticketmaster's prices drop precipitously. Most of the smaller ticket brokers I've bought through (musictoday, tickets.com, groovetickets.com) have fees on par with that of ticketmaster, and while I'm sure a little healthy competition will do a little, I doubt it'll be much.
 
 Does anyone know what ticketmaster makes in a year? I have to wonder with all these ticket brokers running fees at around the same price, is it possible that that's simply the precentage and model that this particular industry needs to exist?

Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2004, 03:40:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
  [So because I live 15 minutes away and it would only cost me $1.04 in gas to go to the venue, my charges should be cheaper?  How do you measure convenience -- based on your residence in Richmond, or mine in Woodley Park?
 
 Yes, they charge a "convenience fee," and they're getting it, but that does not mean they aren't overcharging.
I would say I would measure convenience with regards to me, and you would measure it with regards to you. A certain consumer may think paying $50 for a kid to mow your lawn is ridiculous, while another finds it perfectly acceptable, just as you might (correctly) find it stupid to pay $8 to save you a 5 minute drive, and I might find it prudent to pay $8 to save me a 2 hour drive. That's an essence of business, I'd think.