Author Topic: Ticketmaster debate - again  (Read 13362 times)

Bags

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Ticketmaster debate - again
« on: June 29, 2004, 11:08:00 am »
The Ticketmaster Fee-nomenon
 By Don Oldenburg
 Washington Post Staff Writer
 Tuesday, June 29, 2004; Page C10
 
 When David Guskin got the bill for the Britney Spears concert tickets his daughter, Emily, ordered from Ticketmaster, he was shocked. On top of the $56 price for the July 10 show at Nissan Pavilion was a $3.50 "facility charge," a $9 "convenience charge" and a $4.10 "order processing fee" for each ticket.
 
 "Where is the bathroom fee? The food availability fee?" complains Guskin via e-mail. "The total of various junk fees is $16.60 [per ticket]! This is almost 30 percent of the ticket price itself and about what the entire cost of attending a concert was not that long ago."
 
 Guskin, a Potomac resident, thinks the fees are "absurdly large."
 
 But such objections are nothing new to the world's biggest provider of automated ticketing services. Ticketmaster has long been a complaint magnet largely because of its seemingly superfluous fees. Consumers like Guskin who are already hot over paying big bucks for concert, show or sports tickets feel they're getting burned by add-on charges that jack up the advertised ticket price by 20 to 50 percent, depending on the event.
 
 Some consumers have even taken Ticketmaster to court over the fees, though without success. Most cases are dismissed. Or, as with a 1994 New York lawsuit that alleged the fees were excessive, the courts found that the fees are "always disclosed" and didn't constitute deceptive business practices.
 
 "When computerized ticketing first started 25 year ago, people deemed it an incredible convenience. . . . Now it has been deemed a necessity and people wonder why they have to pay for that necessity," says Ticketmaster spokesman Larry Solters, adding there's a reasonable explanation for each of the additional charges.
 
 For instance, that processing fee? It covers Ticketmaster's expenses in filling a ticket purchase -- from its agents taking the order and finding available seating over the phone or online, to arranging shipping or will-call pickup.
 
 What raises more hackles is the "convenience charge." As Guskin says, paying $9 for convenience seems "redundant and excessive . . . since any convenience the customer might incur is for processing his or her order."
 
 But Solters says the fee provides for the convenience of being able to buy tickets 24 hours a day in any of several easy ways.
 
 "If he didn't want to use the Ticketmaster convenience, he could get in his car, take time off from work, drive out to Nissan, go to the box office, buy the tickets, drive back to work," he says. "What Ticketmaster affords you is the opportunity to buy tickets off-site via phones, online and ticket outlets -- and there is a cost associated with that."
 
 And don't blame Ticketmaster for the "facility fee." Although the ticketing agency collects it, the money goes to the venue -- in this case Nissan Pavilion. "Which makes it no less obnoxious," says Guskin. "Will movie theaters and bowling alleys soon also charge building facility charges?"
 
 Nissan Pavilion spokeswoman Brooke Kent explains that "the facility fee is Nissan's parking fee" since concertgoers pay nothing when they drive into the lots.
 
 Meanwhile, most of the extra charges are a moot point for Guskin, at least this time around. Britney Spears's summer tour has been canceled because of the performer's knee injury.
 
 "Supposedly, we get it all back except for the $4.10 processing fee," says Guskin. "Why isn't that refundable as well?"
 
 Solters says Ticketmaster is refunding the ticket price and all fees but not the processing charge "if they did the mail order through the Internet or by phone" because it performed the service.
 
 When a show is canceled, he says, Ticketmaster does twice the work -- selling the tickets and making the refunds -- for no revenue. And the customer, he adds, "has the benefit of not having to leave his house to get his refund."
 
 But Guskin isn't convinced. He says not many other retail industries treat customers that way. "Perhaps they performed a service, but so does any store when you buy something and then return it. They don't have the nerve to keep part of the charge," he says. "If [Solter's] service logic works, why can't they charge when you just make an inquiry and don't buy? They performed a service then, didn't they?"
 
 The upshot, counters Solters, is that Ticketmaster is all about making ticket-buying easy. To save on some, but not all, of the add-on fees, buy at the venue's box office and pay in cash.
 
 "The reason Ticketmaster has a viable business," he says, "is because people find it incredibly convenient."

Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2004, 11:19:00 am »
Ticketmaster's rep tore that guy a new one. Ones can complain all they want, but there's no merit in the Ticketmaster are bastards argument - they're not making you buy tickets, and thy're not making you buy tickets through them. This paragraph pretty much sums up the long and short of it.
 
 
Quote
"If he didn't want to use the Ticketmaster convenience, he could get in his car, take time off from work, drive out to Nissan, go to the box office, buy the tickets, drive back to work," he says. "What Ticketmaster affords you is the opportunity to buy tickets off-site via phones, online and ticket outlets -- and there is a cost associated with that."

kosmo vinyl

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2004, 11:35:00 am »
while it's not usually the case the tm person might have wanted his facts about buying tickets at the nissan boxoffice... based on past experience with clear channel venues they'll soak you with a ticketmaster level fee for buying tickets at the boxoffice.
 
 even if a online ticket company were run as non-profit people would complain about the extra charges....
T.Rex

bearman🐻

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2004, 11:36:00 am »
I hate Ticketbastard more than just about anything I can think of, but part of what has made them so successful is the fact that they figured out how to sucker money out of people and totally justify it. As excessive and unneccesary as those charges seem, they get away with it time and again because a) they have their excuses down to a science and b) they have no major competition (besides tickets.com I guess).
 
 I still love being able to just walk up to the 9:30 Club box office, pay my $1 fee, and walk away with my ticket in hand. Even better are those nights when there is a show I want to see and only 300 people are there...I don't worry about buying a ticket in advance and I can just walk right up to the window. Of course back in the days of the old club you'd walk down that long corridor and the stench would be enough to wake the dead. But I still miss those days too.

Bags

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2004, 11:47:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by elj:
  Ticketmaster's rep tore that guy a new one. Ones can complain all they want, but there's no merit in the Ticketmaster are bastards argument - they're not making you buy tickets, and thy're not making you buy tickets through them. This paragraph pretty much sums up the long and short of it.
 
   
Quote
"If he didn't want to use the Ticketmaster convenience, he could get in his car, take time off from work, drive out to Nissan, go to the box office, buy the tickets, drive back to work," he says. "What Ticketmaster affords you is the opportunity to buy tickets off-site via phones, online and ticket outlets -- and there is a cost associated with that."
[/b]
I disagree, I think these two paragraphs do, as they try to explain the difference between a processing fee (what you pay them so that they can accomplish their service, with all overhead costs included, etc) and the convenience fee, which is double the processing fee (um, what they get for, um, existing?):
 
   
Quote
What raises more hackles is the "convenience charge." As Guskin says, paying $9 for convenience seems "redundant and excessive . . . since any convenience the customer might incur is for processing his or her order."
 
 But Solters says the fee provides for the convenience of being able to buy tickets 24 hours a day in any of several easy ways.

jkeisenh

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2004, 11:47:00 am »
there aughtta be a law.

Bags

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2004, 11:51:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
 even if a online ticket company were run as non-profit people would complain about the extra charges....
I disagree, I'd be fine with a clear, unchanging and reasonable ticket fee.  But at 50% of the cost of the ticket, it raises my hackles.  I'm lucky to live in a city, near most of the venues I frequent.
 
 Shouldn't it cost the same to process all tickets, regardless of which show the ticket is for?  So, shouldn't there be a flat fee for processing -- $5 across the board?
 
 Hey Bunnyman, I remember that long, smelly hallway!  It was so odd to be there midday, too.    :D   But it was four blocks from my office and I hit it all the time.  Nearly all of us agree, 9:30 Club, old and new, rocks!

sonickteam2

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2004, 11:54:00 am »
All i have to say is that i have noy YET been to the 930 club this year because i wont pay service charges and i dont live in DC.
 
    maybe its my misfortune and i am missing all the good shows, but i am sure I'm not alone.
 
     (I have ATTTEMPED to go to 2 shows the night of, both of which sold out)

Bags

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2004, 11:56:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  All i have to say is that i have noy YET been to the 930 club this year because i wont pay service charges and i dont live in DC.
If there's a show you really want to go to, you should let us know -- I'd be happy to get you a ticket and mail it or leave it at Will Call if I'm going as well...

sonickteam2

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2004, 12:00:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
   
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  All i have to say is that i have noy YET been to the 930 club this year because i wont pay service charges and i dont live in DC.
If there's a show you really want to go to, you should let us know -- I'd be happy to get you a ticket and mail it or leave it at Will Call if I'm going as well... [/b]
well arent you sweet!!  
 
   I might take you up on that one day  :)    I am going on Thursday and did but my tickets on tickets.com cause i really really wanna see the Streets. (and paid $52 for 2-$20 tickets)
   I am looking right now to see if there is another show i can get tickets for while I'm there, but nothings jumping out   :roll:

jkeisenh

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2004, 12:02:00 pm »
yes, i usually hop on my bike during lunch hour and visit the lonely box office folk at the club.  i too am always happy to collect tickets for others.

Bombay Chutney

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2004, 12:09:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
 
 But Guskin isn't convinced. He says not many other retail industries treat customers that way. "Perhaps they performed a service, but so does any store when you buy something and then return it. They don't have the nerve to keep part of the charge," he says.
Actually, some places are now charging "restocking" fees - often about 15-20% or so of the price of the item.

kosmo vinyl

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2004, 12:10:00 pm »
one of the cost at hand is what visa, master card and amex charge companies to process charges, which is typically a flat rate regardless of the amount charged.  so as the ticket price goes up the more expensive the fee.  now ticketmaster may have negotiated a "preferred" fee but they still gotta pay the credit card companies.  this is also mentioned on the missiontix faq...
 
 most companies don't charge extra for using credit cards because it's a cost of doing business.  but since ticketmaster dosen't actually own the tickets they are selling, they would never make any profit if they didn't recover the fee from the buyer to process the credit card.
 
 
 the alternatives to ticketmaster would be either having only the venue boxoffice sell them.  which would favor scaplers because they can hire hundreds of people to lineup when tickets go on sale.
 
 selling them through brokers who could then add whatever service convience charges they want to the tickets... brokers can hold back the good tickets for preferred clients.
 
 it would be foolish for ticketmaster to be the only broker as well...  
 
 
 complain about ticketmaster all you want but it is convient and in theory you have better access at the ticket than what would happen if you limited access.
T.Rex

Guiny

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2004, 12:20:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
   
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  All i have to say is that i have noy YET been to the 930 club this year because i wont pay service charges and i dont live in DC.
If there's a show you really want to go to, you should let us know -- I'd be happy to get you a ticket and mail it or leave it at Will Call if I'm going as well... [/b]
Sonick, same here, a few times I've bought tickets for people on here and mailed them out. Luckily, they paid me when they got the ticket.   :D

Bombay Chutney

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Re: Ticketmaster debate - again
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2004, 12:27:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by kosmo vinyl:
  most companies don't charge extra for using credit cards because it's a cost of doing business.  but since ticketmaster dosen't actually own the tickets they are selling, they would never make any profit if they didn't recover the fee from the buyer to process the credit card.
But isn't this fee something like 2%?  On a $20 ticket, that would be about 40 cents.  TM is charging 10-times that much.