Ticketmaster debate - again

[vansmack]

Originally posted by elj:
   I don't really see tickets.com or any of the smaller ticket brokers getting increased access to see tickets to venues making ticketmaster's prices drop precipitously. Most of the smaller ticket brokers I've bought through (musictoday, tickets.com, groovetickets.com) have fees on par with that of ticketmaster, and while I'm sure a little healthy competition will do a little, I doubt it'll be much.

I'm not as skeptical as you.  We haven't had a chance to see what a little fair market will do to the service charges.  Ticketmaster took over the internet distributors as well - they bought CitySearch (a "local" internet distibutor) and  sued anybody who tried to set up a new destination site for tickets (Microsoft).  How funny is that - one Monopoly suing another?
 
 They gain over 50% of the revenue from internet sales.  But why wouldn't they - the charge is the same, they just don't have to pay the vendor.  THE EXACT REASON THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SAID THEY WEREN'T ANTI-COMPETITIVE.
 
 

Originally posted by elj:
 Does anyone know what ticketmaster makes in a year? I have to wonder with all these ticket brokers running fees at around the same price, is it possible that that's simply the precentage and model that this particular industry needs to exist?

This is a tough argument because Ticketmaster is owned by IAC (InterActiveCorp.) who also owns a slew of web sites that you probably use:
 
 IAC consists of IAC Travel, which includes Expedia, Inc., Hotels.com, Hotwire, Interval International, and TV Travel Shop; HSN; Ticketmaster, which oversees ReserveAmerica; Match.com; LendingTree; Precision Response Corporation; IAC Local and Media Services, which includes Citysearch, Evite, Entertainment Publications, Inc. and TripAdvisor, Inc.; and IAC Interactive Development which includes ZeroDegrees.
 
 I'm not sure of the revenue, but the web site claims that ticketmaster sold $4.9 Billion worth of tickets in 2003.
 
 Just remember, every plane ticket from Hotwire (owned by the same company) has a $5 service charge.  A concert ticket can be three times that.  Why?  Competition.  You can buy the same ticket from three competitors or the source, all online for the same or no service charge.  Care to try your argument again?

[snailhook]

i was going to write out a well-constructed response, but vansmack elucidated everything i was going to say.
 
 however, i would like to mention that the "processing fee" is utter bullshit. i worked for a small non-profit music promoter that booked world music events, and part of my responsibilities was to process tickets via the internet and phone. i can tell you that this did not take much effort, certainly not $4 per ticket, and this was at a company that barely had any money to work with. the money doesn't even go back to the employee processing those tickets; they make slightly higher than minimum wage.
 
 ticketbastard is a monopoly and a microcosm of the problem of unregulated capitalism. i have no problem with their concept and paying a reasonable fee, but the excessive fees that they charge is ludicrous. they are making money off of the bands and the venues, simply by offering a "convenience." i'd rather take my chances with waiting outside.
 
 clear channel's and ticketmaster's greed is astounding. it is no wonder that ticket sales and album sales are slipping. it is not about the music (or whatever entertainment is in question), it is about money and nothing else. smaller venues are dealing with more crap because of this, and something has to be done soon, or we will all suffer for it even more.

[Julian, Alleged Computer F**kface]

Originally posted by vansmack:
  Care to try your argument again?

No, you make a good point on what increased competition would do, and I'll agree with you on that. I don't think though that somehow a business taking advantage of their market position is wrong, though. If a court ruled against them, fine, but arm-chair legal ramblings aren't exactly definitive. I still say, unpopular as it might be, that ticketmaster is one choice we have, and that if we didn't have ticketmaster or services like it, attending concerts would be alot harder for many of us, and I appreciate them existing as an option.

[vansmack]

Originally posted by elj:
   

Originally posted by vansmack:
  Care to try your argument again?

[/b]

Sorry, that was uncalled for.  Ever since a TM fiasco with World Series tickets, I've been (overly)agressive in my opinions of TM.  
 
 

Originally posted by elj:
  I don't think though that somehow a business taking advantage of their market position is wrong, though. If a court ruled against them, fine, but arm-chair legal ramblings aren't exactly definitive. I still say, unpopular as it might be, that ticketmaster is one choice we have, and that if we didn't have ticketmaster or services like it, attending concerts would be alot harder for many of us, and I appreciate them existing as an option.

I do understand the convenience of not living near the venues and liking the TM idea as a service, I just think it can be done differently and I think that TM is using it's market dominance to keep this from happening.

[Guiny]

elj, I'll make this offer to you like I do everyone else, If you wanna save money just e-mail me the show you wanna go to (9#0 Club) and your address. I'll buy the ticket and only ask for the ticket price, 1$ service charge and price of the stamp in return, now how's that for convenience?

[sonickteam2]

I think elj's so called "argument" is really saying that ticketmaster works good for him, so its a good company.
 
   sounds kinda silly to me. but whatever, you're american.
 
    The only time i have in the last year or two and will buy tickets from ticketmaster is for out of state events.  Clearly me going to California to snatch my Coachella tickets would be a little pricey.
 
   But even if i was in California could i get Coachella tickets with no service charge?  perhaps not.
 
   Did you ever think that ticketmaster's vast coverage and monopoly may make it nearly impossible to set up outlets with little or no service charge excluding the box office itself.
 
   We used to sell tickets to club events via record stores and our own website and no one seemed to care.  It all boils down to contracts and payoffs, not convenience.
 
 do you think TM was started cause people felt bad for folks who couldnt make it to the box office?

[jpbelmondo]

Prior to the elimination of Ticketron (which was, I believe, purchased by Ticketmaster), service charges were $1-2.  There were no "convenience" fees.  No need to go to the venue either -- you'd just drive on over to the department store and get in line.  Ticketmaster is only able to charge so much because they are a monopoly.  There's no way a Republican administration is going to make them change their behavior (hell, even the Clinton administration backed down), so consumers are stuck dealing with one of the main problems with capitalism, concentration of access to resources in the hands of one party who can charge whatever they want.

[Jaguär]

Christ, I live north of Baltimore and I can drive down to the club and back to buy my ticket and still have gas left over based on what those fees are. And that's for 1 ticket and today's cost of gas! Sure, I'd still have to go to the trouble of driving down. The point is that the fees are just way too high. So many others, especially my lawyer Smackie and Snailhook, made the same points I'd make so won't go off on some of them.
 
 At one time I worked as a travel agent which is, in essence, a very similiar job accept it actually involves a whole lot more promotion, sales and work. We charged NO fees whatsoever but we did make a commission, which would be what Sonick would prefer as a price worked into the ticket. The thing was, if a trip was cancelled, we didn't get shit! Of course, it depended on who cancelled and why. There were sometimes (but not always) cancellation fees in some instances if cxled by the client for reasons other than health or death. If for any reason the trip was cancelled by the vendor or changed in some way unsuitable towards the client, the client got every single penny back and no one received any kind of payment regardless of all the work we did and expenses that were incurred.
 
 As a travel agent, ironically, usually, the cheaper the ticket or trip, the more work was involved. And I mean LOTS more work! But I'm getting off track there with my thought being that there's no good reason for charging so much more for higher priced shows.
 
 Regarding ticket service companies that keep fees on cxled events: yes, to a point, I can understand expecting some sort of payment for work done. But what about everyone else who put out expenses for an event? The bands, the venues, the promoters, sponsors, etc... If my understanding is correct, they don't get one red cent yet the ticketing agencies are keeping every penny of their profits, whatever they want to call them.
 
 Lastly, credit card companies charge vendors a 2% fee with American Express charging a little bit more. Now, I was always under the impression that if something was cancelled or returned that they too lost their fee. Not sure on that point.

[Seth Hurwitz]

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  I would feel better paying $60 for a $50 ticket with $10 service fees, than i would paying $60 for a $40 ticket and $20 of service fees, wouldnt you? [/QB]

see, now, this is where I think people are overthinking this
 
 the bottom line should be do you wanna pay $60 for that ticket - shouldn't matter which part of it goes where - figuring that out isn't going to change anything
 
 I do think that all service charges should be refunded in the event of a cancellation, but both companies (TM/Tickets.com) do that so there doesn't seem to be a way around it

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
   

Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  I would feel better paying $60 for a $50 ticket with $10 service fees, than i would paying $60 for a $40 ticket and $20 of service fees, wouldnt you? [/b]

see, now, this is where I think people are overthinking this
 
 [/QB]

what else do we have to do at work?

[Bombay Chutney]

Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
  the bottom line should be do you wanna pay $60 for that ticket - shouldn't matter which part of it goes where - figuring that out isn't going to change anything

Well, yeah.  Ultimately, it comes down to whether or not the show is worth $60 to me.  But I can't help feeling ripped off if I request one $40 ticket and the total comes to $60.  
 
 But it does matter to me where the money goes.  I'd be more inclined to pay a little more if I thought the money was going to the artist, or even the club, rather than some large, faceless  corporation with questionable business practices trying to make as much money off of me as they possibly can.
 
 I know that's just a matter of perception - I really have no idea how the money is split-up.  But sometimes it does make a difference to me.

[markie]

How come fandango can sell cinema tickets for only a $1 premium?

[Bags]

Originally posted by Seth Hurwitz:
  the bottom line should be do you wanna pay $60 for that ticket - shouldn't matter which part of it goes where - figuring that out isn't going to change anything
 

Yeah, I understand that.  The problem is that you see the show in the citypaper or w. post and it's $40.  When your final price is $60 later during your purchase, it's jarring.  Especially if you're buying multiple tickets and what you thought would be $400 is $600....  I realize we should all be doing the math in our heads when we read about a show, but we forget.

[sonickteam2]

Originally posted by Bagalicious Tangster:
  I realize we should all be doing the math in our heads when we read about a show, but we forget.

YEAH! my motto is
 
   thee who makes the money, does the fucking math.

[Bombay Chutney]

How about making ticket agencies list the service charges in all advertisements?  Sort of like how car dealers have to list the amount of money required to sign up for a lease, or their "price-as-shown" notices in their commercials. Similarly, all facility fees and required parking fees would have to be listed.
 
 Yeah - I know that would be difficult...just a thought.