The 2020 thread....

[hutch]

To be clear: I await your evidence that millions of Hillary voters in the 2008 primaries voted for McCain

[sweetcell]

As for your claim you voted for Hillary...I doubt it...and your “conscious”  whatever that is will always be clear as long as you continue to believe the drivel you post....the fact is nobody had more say in the current rules than Bernie and yet you continue with this DNC bogeyman crap

hutch, dude... when you sober up in the morning, please re-read the above then ask yourself if that's the kind of "debate" that moves anything in a positive direction. 

[hutch]

Sorry to say I am perfectly sober

We have been having the same debate since HRC lost

These primaries will decide it once and for all

But I have had it with the Bernie people

[hutch]

I can’t believe how people put down Bloomberg for being rich...the guy uses his money for good things

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bloomberg+donation+to+hopkins&view=detail&mid=675BD2B2F192438E045E675BD2B2F192438E045E&FORM=VIRE

He has also been very involved with gun issues

I like him


Someone recently told me Bloomberg is bombarding the airwaves on Latino TV stations with campaign ads...everyone else ignores them...some of the other candidates have a lot of other people’s money they could spend doing the same...they don’t while Bloomberg spends his own

[hutch]

Unity from Bernie folk

https://mobile.twitter.com/chrisjollyhale/status/1223442238509850624

[Dejecty-hatch lııllı|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|llıl]

And the sad thing is when Bernie loses I doubt his supporters will support the nominee...they have become far more cult like since the last go around

So let's be clear, Bernie does not have a small # of supporters at this point
and to paint that group as one monolith single hive mind is not really the reality
He definitely has the ultra left wing and young vote
there are surely a percentage of them that are Bern or bust, but I'd say that is less than 10% of that
He also is likely to win the first 3 primaries

So every time you insult the bernie supporters, you are pissing off the 90% who would #votebluenomatterwho
those other 10% are not gettable votes, if bernie doesn't win, they won't vote or write him in
give up on them
but stop insulting the other 90%

With all of that said, I blame the DNC for not changing things with this stupid primary
the presidential election is ONLY about one thing...the Electoral college
The DNC should have reorganized super Tuesday to be just the battle ground states
We need a candidate who can win in those states...and that's it

Fuck Iowa ...what a waste of time and money
and don't get me started on the stupidity of Caucuses.  Sound great on paper, but a surefire way to DECREASE voter turn out...and the ones that do tend to be a bit extreme

Why does the DNC think this set up is the holy tenant of how things get done
You would have thought with the way things were looking early on in 2019...they could have just said...OK, fuck how we did this before, we need to win the EC, we need a candidate who can win in Florida, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan,  Arizona, Georgia and North Carolina
So we're going to push these states up in the Primary to go FIRST and the campaigns should ONLY focus on these states


So our current super tue at least has MI, NC AZ and FL   
That they put  GA, PA and WI after super tues...after what we already know...

ultimately what's done is done...but I am pretty confident that if Trump wins, it is because we didn't change the primary to focus on the who can win the battle ground states

[nkotb]

I'm tired of talking about stupid HRC (I know, I know I'm to blame here as well!) and there's a primary to win so I'll turn back my focus there.  Plus, Rashida Tlaib put a better capper on this last night than I ever could

24% of people who voted for Hillary voted McCain?

Where is the evidence? I call bullshit

LOL I literally posted this the last time you brought up Bernie supporters that went for Trump.  Try googling "Hillary Clinton PUMA" t0 remind yourself how 2008 went down:

As someone that did vote for HRC over Trump (I'm not fully insane, gang) I do think that number stinks.  But you have to ask how that compares to past elections.  This was pretty eye opening though i think that for anyone that blames Bernie for Trumps victory it wont move the needle:

"Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012."

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

I had not seen this before

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds?fbclid=IwAR3M9hbi2a6aC7atJmxp9nAKUE8AqSeAwSrJs320m6tVZLRFNVsSaiuShDQ

But even if that’s so they didn’t cost Obama the presidency like Bernie voters cost HRC and gave us Trump. Own it

This is because Obama, for his faults, is a winner. HRC is a loser.

As for your claim you voted for Hillary...I doubt it...and your “conscious”  whatever that is will always be clear as long as you continue to believe the drivel you post

See above. 

the fact is nobody had more say in the current rules than Bernie and yet you continue with this DNC bogeyman crap

Maybe it's the fact that they changed those rules to include Bloomberg that folks are in an uproar. These are the same rules that couldn't be amended previous because doing so would "be putting our thumb on the scale" according to Tom Perez.  Why was changing the rules to include a climate only debate putting your thumb on the scale, but throwing out the established, agreed upon threshold for donations to include Bloomberg not?

[hutch]

I am bored but it’s remarkable you cite a study that literally blames Bernie supporters for Trump winning. I am not sure how much stock to put on it as a whole.....They do not blame Hillary supporters for Obama losing. And it was very different to vote for McCain in 2008 knowing he had zero chance than voting Trump in 2016 - knowing what he represented- and that it was close...


Done with this....let’s see Iowa...everyone seems to be predicting a Bernie landslide (no am not trying to create expectations just saying what I see and hear)

How will the failed impeachment play in Iowa is a new X factor

I would be fine with Bernie beating Trump. Would be a great thing...and I would definitely support Bernie although voting for someone is hardly enough. I made calls for Kerry, donated to Obama (who I strongly supported in primaries over HRC and canvassed for), canvassed and donated to HRC....this is in the general

When people say they would vote for someone and that’s it I just don’t think it’s enough.....there is a whole campaign

[Space Freely]

1) something like 24% of HRC voters went for McCain over Obama, and he still won. 

2) I voted for HRC so my conscious is clear.

Why do you continue to split the party, Hutch?

24% of people who voted for Hillary voted McCain?

Where is the evidence? I call bullshit

But even if that’s so they didn’t cost Obama the presidency like Bernie voters cost HRC and gave us Trump. Own it

And the sad thing is when Bernie loses I doubt his supporters will support the nominee...they have become far more cult like since the last go around

As for your claim you voted for Hillary...I doubt it...and your “conscious”  whatever that is will always be clear as long as you continue to believe the drivel you post....the fact is nobody had more say in the current rules than Bernie and yet you continue with this DNC bogeyman crap

15% according to CNN

Exit polling also showed that Democrats who supported Sen. Hillary Clinton during the primaries overwhelming voted for Obama in the general election, 84 percent to 15 percent for McCain.

https://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/04/exit.polls/

[hutch]

15% seems probable or possible...


I just think saying 24% is crazy...I don’t expect NKOTB to accept his number was bull or to accept Hillary did not cost Obama the presidency while Bernie did cost Hillary the presidency


I think voting doesn’t take place in a vacuum

We knew Trump was a threat...We knew Obama would beat McCain

I noticed NKOTB called Hillary a loser......the real loser was the American people including NKOTB and I

[hutch]

Iowa: are we waiting on the final Des Moines Register poll? Tomorrow, right?

[Space Freely]

15% seems probable or possible...


I just think saying 24% is crazy...I don’t expect NKOTB to accept his number was bull or to accept Hillary did not cost Obama the presidency while Bernie did cost Hillary the presidency


I think voting doesn’t take place in a vacuum

We knew Trump was a threat...We knew Obama would beat McCain

I noticed NKOTB called Hillary a loser......the real loser was the American people including NKOTB and I

I got that CNN link from this article, which does address the 24 figure.:

https://medium.com/@jriddle/the-12-bernie-to-trump-figure-and-24-clinton-to-mccain-figure-comes-from-brian-schaffner-of-the-9905971c9f45

It also says:

Note: In general, 7–10% of self-identified Democrats will vote for the Republican candidate and vice-versa — that’s the usual level of crossover voting in a modern presidential election.

So we need a candidate who is going to not only bring out the apathetic voter, but also keep the Democratic flippers, and capture the Republican flippers.

[hutch]

Wow...no poll which is great


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/us/politics/des-moines-register-polls-iowa-caucus.html#click=https://t.co/pX73sECPeA

[vansmack]

The naivety is just astounding.

The reason the only 6 states that matter DON'T go first, despite Florida and Michigan's attempts, is because the party's Cash cow is the coasts.

That's why the debates are so depressing and a battle for the coastal votes - Money.

Without money, no candidate gets out of the primary, and without money, nobody beats Trump.  But don't worry, come Wednesday, even the coastal money might not matter.

[WALKonBack]

If the human race, put this much effort and thought into curing diseases, ending starvation, fixing the environment, exploring the cosmos, understanding dna and why the mind only uses less than 10% of it's capacity, connecting the consciousness with meta physicality . . . .

. . . . Instead of wagging your mental dicks at each other attempting to prove that yours is somehow bigger when it comes to  what you feel is correct with politics, we might actually accomplish something on the time period we have with this planet.  But instead, you would rather bore the air around you with the facts that you are nothing more than self importance; nothing more than a waste of any time or space; nothing more than rejection that can't realize you'll never matter.

It must be sad, to take politics that seriously, because it doesn't take you for anything but a fool. 

Enjoy, your teets of boredomness.  The future is not yours, to grasp.