Author Topic: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever  (Read 59876 times)

Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #105 on: October 01, 2004, 02:12:00 pm »
Seems that it's the Republicans are the ones spending irresponsibly and running up the deficit.
 
 I seem to remember a more balanced budget and better economy under Clinton.
 
 
Quote
Originally posted by Arthwys:
   I'm mostly republican due to my opinion that "conservative, responsible spending" is the best way to go.  That and less tax, hence more consumer spending power.   :cool:  

sonickteam2

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #106 on: October 01, 2004, 02:20:00 pm »
whats this about the top 2% income tax breaks? I haven't heard specifially but it sounds kind of dubious....or is that dubya-ish.

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #107 on: October 01, 2004, 03:01:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by ggwâ?¢:
  .  Don't you think that bringing in China adds a lot to the negotiations?  Certainly they are more engaged with North Korea on a regular basis  
Ha!  That's a laugh.  China won't ever back the U.S. over Pyongyang.  If Bush is planning on this, he's a bigger fool than I thought.
 -------
 
 
 BTW, who do you think's gonna be the first bboard member to die in battle overseas???

sonickteam2

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #108 on: October 01, 2004, 03:18:00 pm »
rob gee
 
  or is he too old?

Sir HC

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #109 on: October 01, 2004, 03:35:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
  whats this about the top 2% income tax breaks? I haven't heard specifially but it sounds kind of dubious....or is that dubya-ish.
Somewhere (think it was the post) they gave the reduction in taxes based on income, for those in the 1 million or more income bracket their taxes under Bush dropped around 6 1/2% while the so called middle class had their taxes drop something like 2%.

sonickteam2

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #110 on: October 01, 2004, 03:41:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Sir HC:
  Somewhere (think it was the post) they gave the reduction in taxes based on income, for those in the 1 million or more income bracket their taxes under Bush dropped around 6 1/2% while the so called middle class had their taxes drop something like 2%.
why would they do that? cause thats thier tax bracket?

grotty

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #111 on: October 01, 2004, 03:42:00 pm »
3 Polls Show Kerry Won Debate Over Bush
 By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent
 
 CORAL GABLES, Fla. - President Bush and Sen. John Kerry rushed back to the campaign trail Friday to try to convince voters they had won the debate over foreign policy and to renew the argument over whether going to war in Iraq had made the nation safer.
 
 Three post-debate polls suggested voters who watched the policy-driven confrontation Thursday night were impressed by Kerry. Most of those surveyed said he did better than Bush.
 
 Kerry's running mate, Sen. John Edwards, said Friday he told Kerry after the debate "I think people saw the next commander in chief," and he criticized Bush for failing to acknowledge problems in Iraq. "You can't fix a problem if you're not willing to admit that mistakes have been made and that you have a problem," he told ABC's "Good Morning America."
 
 Bush, however, believed he had effectively spelled out the strategy and shown the resolve with which he is fighting the war on terror, White House communications director Dan Bartlett said. "I think he spoke from the heart, spoke with strength about the necessity for our country to fight the terrorists over there so we don't have to face them here at home," Bartlett told ABC. "He had a good time last night."
 
 Sen. John McCain, the Arizona Republican who informally advised Bush on how to debate his friend and Senate colleague, told reporters in Miami on Friday that the debate was probably Kerry's "brightest moment" in the last six weeks. "He presented himself well, John did," McCain said. "Kerry came out slugging."
 
 Kerry's campaign prepared a TV ad that featured newspaper headlines from Friday praising the Democrat's performance. The Democratic National Committee was rolling out a Web video showing clips of Bush appearing frustrated at the debate.
 
 When Kerry leveled some of his charges, Bush appeared irritated and scowled at times and, at other moments, glanced away in apparent disgust. Kerry often took notes when the president spoke. The television networks offered a split screen to viewers so they could see both men at the same time and watch their reactions.
 
 Bush knew he would be on camera during the entire debate and was aware that the networks had not agreed to show only the candidate who was speaking, Bush campaign spokeswoman Nicolle Devenish said. Regarding Bush's facial reactions, Devenish said: "The president reacted honestly. It showed the president really believes in his convictions."
 
 From the first question, Kerry went on the offensive, accusing Bush of leaving U.S. alliances around the world "in shatters" and later calling Iraq "this incredible mess." Bush said Kerry had voted to authorize the war he now criticizes. "That's not how a commander in chief acts," Bush said.
 
 Less than five weeks before the election, Iraq dominated the debate on a day when a string of bombs killed 35 children and wounded scores of others in western Baghdad. Overall, more than 1,000 U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq.
 
 Kerry summed up Bush's strategy for Iraq as "more of the same" and added: "This president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment. And judgment is what we look for in the president of the United States of America."
 
 Bush acknowledged that not every American agrees with the decisions he's made. "But people know where I stand," Bush said, suggesting they don't know where Kerry stands. "People out there listening know what I believe."
 
 From Florida, Bush was heading out Friday to rallies in Pennsylvania and New Hampshire, two key battleground states. Kerry was spending the day campaigning in Florida, where the presidential race was decided four years ago.
 
 In Thursday night's encounter at the University of Miami, Bush and Kerry drew heavily on oft-repeated lines from their campaign speeches but they faced each other directly across the same stage for the first time.
 
 On Iraq, Bush criticized Kerry for saying it was the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place. "What message does that send to our troops?" the president said. "Not a message a commander in chief gives."
 
 Repeating a line he has used countless times to show his opponent is inconsistent, Bush tweaked Kerry for saying he voted for an $87 billion spending bill for Iraq and Afghanistan before he voted against it.
 
 Kerry shot back, "Well, you know, when I talked bout the $87 billion, I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?"
 
 Trying to persuade voters that he is tough enough to be commander in chief, Kerry said, "I believe in being strong and resolute and determined. And I will hunt down and kill the terrorists, wherever they are." He said that Bush, in invading Iraq, lost sight of the goal of capturing terrorist leader Osama bin Laden.
 
 But Bush insisted that "the world is safer without Saddam Hussein." He called Iraq "a central part in the war on terror" and said 75 percent of bin Laden's leadership had been brought to justice.
 
 Trying to turn Kerry's criticism against him, Bush said, "I understand what it means to be the commander in chief. And if I were to ever say, 'This is the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place,' the troops would wonder, 'How can I follow this guy?'"
 
 To Kerry's contention that he could summon broader international support for the war, Bush said, "They're not going to follow someone whose core convictions keep changing because of politics."
 
 While Iraq was the dominant issue in the debate, there were notable differences on North Korea and Iran, two nations suspected of pursuing nuclear weapons programs. Kerry urged that the United States hold direct bilateral talks with North Korea, but Bush called Kerry's proposal "a big mistake" that would crush multinational talks and remove pressure from China on North Korea. Kerry said North Korea has amassed more nuclear weapons during Bush's administration.
 
 On Iran, Kerry said the United States should have worked with allies like France, Germany and Britain to impose sanctions if Tehran refused to give up its nuclear program.

grotty

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #112 on: October 01, 2004, 03:43:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by sonickteam2:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Sir HC:
  Somewhere (think it was the post) they gave the reduction in taxes based on income, for those in the 1 million or more income bracket their taxes under Bush dropped around 6 1/2% while the so called middle class had their taxes drop something like 2%.
why would they do that? cause thats thier tax bracket? [/b]
Bush Tax Cuts Widen US Income Gap

Sir HC

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #113 on: October 01, 2004, 03:56:00 pm »
Oh, and Kerry wants to have the 6 way talks continue and have bilateral talks.  As it stands the other 4 countries are doing bilateral talks also with North Korea.  It is not a either/or situation, you can have both.  Bush just can not (or will not allow himself) to see that.
 
 Oh, and Bush threatened to veto his 87 billion spending bill.  That beats voting for than against two separate bills.

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #114 on: October 01, 2004, 04:27:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by grotty:
  3 Polls Show Kerry Won Debate Over Bush
 By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent
 
 CORAL GABLES, Fla. - President Bush and Sen. John Kerry rushed back to the campaign trail Friday to try to convince voters they had won the debate over foreign policy and to renew the argument over whether going to war in Iraq had made the nation safer.
 
 Three post-debate polls suggested voters who watched the policy-driven confrontation Thursday night were impressed by Kerry. Most of those surveyed said he did better than Bush.
 
 Kerry's running mate, Sen. John Edwards, said Friday he told Kerry after the debate "I think people saw the next commander in chief," and he criticized Bush for failing to acknowledge problems in Iraq. "You can't fix a problem if you're not willing to admit that mistakes have been made and that you have a problem," he told ABC's "Good Morning America."
 
 Bush, however, believed he had effectively spelled out the strategy and shown the resolve with which he is fighting the war on terror, White House communications director Dan Bartlett said. "I think he spoke from the heart, spoke with strength about the necessity for our country to fight the terrorists over there so we don't have to face them here at home," Bartlett told ABC. "He had a good time last night."
 
 Sen. John McCain, the Arizona Republican who informally advised Bush on how to debate his friend and Senate colleague, told reporters in Miami on Friday that the debate was probably Kerry's "brightest moment" in the last six weeks. "He presented himself well, John did," McCain said. "Kerry came out slugging."
 
 Kerry's campaign prepared a TV ad that featured newspaper headlines from Friday praising the Democrat's performance. The Democratic National Committee was rolling out a Web video showing clips of Bush appearing frustrated at the debate.
 
 When Kerry leveled some of his charges, Bush appeared irritated and scowled at times and, at other moments, glanced away in apparent disgust. Kerry often took notes when the president spoke. The television networks offered a split screen to viewers so they could see both men at the same time and watch their reactions.
 
 Bush knew he would be on camera during the entire debate and was aware that the networks had not agreed to show only the candidate who was speaking, Bush campaign spokeswoman Nicolle Devenish said. Regarding Bush's facial reactions, Devenish said: "The president reacted honestly. It showed the president really believes in his convictions."
 
 From the first question, Kerry went on the offensive, accusing Bush of leaving U.S. alliances around the world "in shatters" and later calling Iraq "this incredible mess." Bush said Kerry had voted to authorize the war he now criticizes. "That's not how a commander in chief acts," Bush said.
 
 Less than five weeks before the election, Iraq dominated the debate on a day when a string of bombs killed 35 children and wounded scores of others in western Baghdad. Overall, more than 1,000 U.S. soldiers have died in Iraq.
 
 Kerry summed up Bush's strategy for Iraq as "more of the same" and added: "This president has made, I regret to say, a colossal error of judgment. And judgment is what we look for in the president of the United States of America."
 
 Bush acknowledged that not every American agrees with the decisions he's made. "But people know where I stand," Bush said, suggesting they don't know where Kerry stands. "People out there listening know what I believe."
 
 From Florida, Bush was heading out Friday to rallies in Pennsylvania and New Hampshire, two key battleground states. Kerry was spending the day campaigning in Florida, where the presidential race was decided four years ago.
 
 In Thursday night's encounter at the University of Miami, Bush and Kerry drew heavily on oft-repeated lines from their campaign speeches but they faced each other directly across the same stage for the first time.
 
 On Iraq, Bush criticized Kerry for saying it was the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place. "What message does that send to our troops?" the president said. "Not a message a commander in chief gives."
 
 Repeating a line he has used countless times to show his opponent is inconsistent, Bush tweaked Kerry for saying he voted for an $87 billion spending bill for Iraq and Afghanistan before he voted against it.
 
 Kerry shot back, "Well, you know, when I talked bout the $87 billion, I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?"
 
 Trying to persuade voters that he is tough enough to be commander in chief, Kerry said, "I believe in being strong and resolute and determined. And I will hunt down and kill the terrorists, wherever they are." He said that Bush, in invading Iraq, lost sight of the goal of capturing terrorist leader Osama bin Laden.
 
 But Bush insisted that "the world is safer without Saddam Hussein." He called Iraq "a central part in the war on terror" and said 75 percent of bin Laden's leadership had been brought to justice.
 
 Trying to turn Kerry's criticism against him, Bush said, "I understand what it means to be the commander in chief. And if I were to ever say, 'This is the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place,' the troops would wonder, 'How can I follow this guy?'"
 
 To Kerry's contention that he could summon broader international support for the war, Bush said, "They're not going to follow someone whose core convictions keep changing because of politics."
 
 While Iraq was the dominant issue in the debate, there were notable differences on North Korea and Iran, two nations suspected of pursuing nuclear weapons programs. Kerry urged that the United States hold direct bilateral talks with North Korea, but Bush called Kerry's proposal "a big mistake" that would crush multinational talks and remove pressure from China on North Korea. Kerry said North Korea has amassed more nuclear weapons during Bush's administration.
 
 On Iran, Kerry said the United States should have worked with allies like France, Germany and Britain to impose sanctions if Tehran refused to give up its nuclear program.
<img src="http://pages.prodigy.net/hauxfan/Signs/Group_3/23.gif" alt=" - " />

grotty

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #115 on: October 01, 2004, 05:49:00 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by marquee smith:
   
Quote
Originally posted by grotty:
  3 Polls Show Kerry Won Debate Over Bush
 
<img src="http://pages.prodigy.net/hauxfan/Signs/Group_3/23.gif" alt=" - " /> [/b]
don't make me stop this car & come back there

Sir HC

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #116 on: October 01, 2004, 05:49:00 pm »
So I went to lunch with three co-workers.  All are conservatives and dig on me every time they can about Kerry and the "liberals".  Well not one word said about the debate from them.  To me that is a sign that Kerry won because these are people who gloat over any loss by the other side whether it be politics or sports.

Barcelona

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #117 on: October 03, 2004, 10:35:00 am »
There might still be a chance!
 
 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6159637/site/newsweek/
 
 The Race is On
 With voters widely viewing Kerry as the debate’s winner, Bush’s lead in the NEWSWEEK poll has evaporated
 
 Oct. 2 - With a solid majority of voters concluding that John Kerry outperformed George W. Bush in the first presidential debate on Thursday, the president’s lead in the race for the White House has vanished, according to the latest NEWSWEEK poll. In the first national telephone poll using a fresh sample, NEWSWEEK found the race now statistically tied among all registered voters, 47 percent of whom say they would vote for Kerry and 45 percent for George W. Bush in a three-way race.
 
 Removing Independent candidate Ralph Nader, who draws 2 percent of the vote, widens the Kerry-Edwards lead to three points with 49 percent of the vote versus the incumbent’s 46 percent. Four weeks ago the Republican ticket, coming out of a successful convention in New York, enjoyed an 11-point lead over Kerry-Edwards with Bush pulling 52 percent of the vote and the challenger just 41 percent.
 
 Among the three-quarters (74 percent) of registered voters who say they watched at least some of Thursday’s debate, 61 percent see Kerry as the clear winner, 19 percent pick Bush as the victor and 16 percent call it a draw. After weeks of being portrayed as a verbose “flip-flopper” by Republicans, Kerry did better than a majority (56 percent) had expected. Only about 11 percent would say the same for the president’s performance while more than one-third (38 percent) said the incumbent actually did worse that they had expected. Thirty-nine percent of Republicans felt their man out-debated the challenger but a full third (33 percent) say they felt Kerry won.

hitman

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Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #118 on: October 04, 2004, 09:38:00 am »
Quote
Originally posted by pollard:
   
Quote
Originally posted by Arthwys:
  Sure the government is already pervasive, it's been that way for decades.  Can't change that at this point, I just think the rate at which government will grow (cuz it will no matter who's in office) would be slower w/ a conservative president than a liberal one.
 
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/columnists/ny-vpkea073958407sep07,0,2441062.column?coll=ny-opinion-columnists
   
Quote
Spending increases have been dramatic under this Republican-run federal government in recent years. In fact, it's so bad that, on this particular issue, I almost long for the days of - dare I say it? - Bill Clinton. During the Clinton years, federal government expenditures increased at an annual average rate of 3.6 percent. During the first three years under Bush, spending increases have averaged 7.5 percent.
 
 Ah, but this must all be about defense spending, right? After all, defense took a major hit during the Clinton years, and since 9/11 we are a nation at war. But outlays less defense spending increased at an average annual rate of 4.2 percent during Clinton's eight years and 6.2 percent during Bush's first three years in office. It gets worse when you also take net interest payments out of the equation in order to get to spending on non-defense federal programs. That averaged a 4.2-percent annual increase under Clinton, versus 8.1 percent under Bush.
 
[/b]
Defense budgets have been taking a hit since Reagan.  That is when the base closures started, right at the end of his last term.  Bush continued them at a much more alarming rate, and albeit a Republican, he also began to slash away at defense budgets.  To everyone's dismay this continued under Clinton, but not to such a rate as under Bush.  I love when this comes up and people automatically point to Democrats as far as killing the defense.  It's been a shared exercise, but more by Republicans than Democrats.

Re: Frankensteins monster vs Someone who is not very clever
« Reply #119 on: October 04, 2004, 09:41:00 am »
I think it's funny that people would change their mind just because someone won a debate. It seems like people change their mind because someone won, not because what was said. Just goes with our sports mentality, I guess.