930 Forums
=> GENERAL DISCUSSION => Topic started by: mr_goodbomb on December 03, 2009, 06:18:30 pm
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I went to buy tickets for a show that happens to land right near by birthday (the same performer played here last year almost on the same date, but I missed ticket sales). So, I wanted to get tickets early. I'm from WV, so buying them at the box office isn't practical. I remember when I was in middle and high school and service charges for ticket sale venues online with WillCall were a dollar, maybe, sometimes as high as 5, and I thought, considering that it may even be more convenient for the venue that way, that 5 dollars was a bit steep. I tried to pick up two tickets and a parking pass for the show. The service fees were 4.75 EACH for the tickets, another 4 for parking, and somehow, the total was an added 17 dollars for all service fees. That's funny, but I thought I was already paying enough for the tickets and added parking cost. Does this seem pretty excessive to anyone else? If I wanted to see a show that cost me 70 dollars for 2 people, I'd go to Nissan.
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How much would it cost you in time and gas to drive from WV to the 930 Club to buy the tickets? Oh, significantly more money? Shut up then.
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unlike julian, who's taste of teething silver must have left him quite the corrosive tongue, i will admit that yes the fees are higher and rights to complain may be there in the air to feel free enough to voice them . . . but i'm still an ole softy to the fact that this internet thing is fast and convenient and makes getting tickets to shows for folks such as us far from the easy go lucky cares of everyone in peacoats with concrete eyes and scowls upon their faces, that much more the simpler. so in a nut shell, i accept the fees and their current value. i even enjoi ticketmaster for their rerelease fun where certain dates and times can score you fantastic throw backs. maybe i'm one of the ones that the companies depend on to make money from with my "so-called" idealisms, but everyone's got to make money to make money stay money in a country controlled by money. just ask julian.
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Its a ripoff.
Even Seth Hurwitz admitted on another thread that one should think of the total cost.. that the cost for the show was the total cost.
If this is so why doesn't Seth give us a that total cost as the ticket price including all the added on crap instead of making it look like a ticket costs X when its really X+
Be transparent.. Don't pretend the ticket costs X when it really costs X+20%
The worse thing about it is that some of the ticket charges go to the venues so its not that the ticket charges are paying just for the "service".. They are paying for the service provision and the kickback to the venue.
Well what the fuck???
People who say this is no big thing ought to realize that until they complain and organize some sort of opposition the ticket charges will continue to go up as a percentage of the ticket..
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If this is so why doesn't Seth give us a that total cost as the ticket price including all the added on crap instead of making it look like a ticket costs X when its really X+
Uh... because Seth doesn't own the ticketing agency.
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How much would it cost you in time and gas to drive from WV to the 930 Club to buy the tickets? Oh, significantly more money? Shut up then.
How intelligent and mature of a response. I'm sorry, I didn't notice that when I woke up from a nap, I cam to in 1997, where the internet is new and astounding and purchasing things online is so utterly bizarre and space-aged to me that I feel no remorse paying almost the price of another ticket for the convenience of pre-ordering, despite the fact that it costs the company nothing extra to perform such a service, and even makes things MORE convenient just them, and not just for the ticket buyer. Thank you for reminding me, I'll set my calendar back.
This might take time, it seems my computer doesn't go back that far. I'll have to downgrade to Windows 95.
Be transparent.. Don't pretend the ticket costs X when it really costs X+20%
While I agree with everything you said, the service charges ($17 for 2x$20 tickets and a $10 parking fee) are actually closer to 35%.
Uh... because Seth doesn't own the ticketing agency.
If Seth is any form of manager for the establishment, and he feels for the customers and agrees that these charges are excessive, then he should work with a company that doesn't charge as much. Very simple stuff.
I assume your post count is as high as it is because your comments are as useless and nonsensical as those presented here.
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Look kid. Don't get snippy with me. You're the one coming here and rehashing an argument for the five hundredth time with the same logical fallacies and inaccuracies. I love how every one of you who bitch about ticket charges think you're the first one to do it. No way, in your mind, could this have been discussed ad naseum, no... you're the one who's going to bring it to people's attention and get changes made.
Fact remains, Seth has heard this a trillion times and has said he does not care. He just changed ticketing agents (effective January 2010) and said reducing ticketing fees was not his motivation at all. You will not get them changed. Period, end debate.
And the fact remains, for you (and for most people) buying online for that convenience fee is your cheapest option. In the old pre-internet days, it would have cost you markedly more time and money in gas driving to the venue to purchase tickets ahead of the concert date. Then ticketing agents come along and save you, possibly, hundreds of dollars when you factor in the cost of your time in driving to the venue and pass along a convenience fee of maybe 15% of WHAT IT WOULD COST YOU OTHERWISE TO GET TO THE BOX OFFICE AND BUY TICKETS and you complain about the fee. Ticketing fees are too high? In relation to what? They're pennies on the dollar in comparison to your only other option.
I also love your intelligent, erudite claim that printing and mailing tickets cost the ticketing agent "nothing... to perform such a service." O RLY? You're absolutely right that servers and software to handle credit card transactions, credit card fees, customer service, custom printers with the ability to print holograms, watermarks, and other things making counterfeiting harder and mailing out tickets cost nothing. NOTHING. Pure, 100% profit.
Lets just hope your post count never climbs above 2 because your comments are clearly never going to rise above the level of the useless and nonsensical ones presented here.
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Look kid. Don't get snippy with me. You're the one coming here and rehashing an argument for the five hundredth time with the same logical fallacies and inaccuracies. I love how every one of you who bitch about ticket charges think you're the first one to do it. No way, in your mind, could this have been discussed ad naseum, no... you're the one who's going to bring it to people's attention and get changes made.
Fact remains, Seth has heard this a trillion times and has said he does not care. He just changed ticketing agents (effective January 2010) and said reducing ticketing fees was not his motivation at all. You will not get them changed. Period, end debate.
And the fact remains, for you (and for most people) buying online for that convenience fee is your cheapest option. In the old pre-internet days, it would have cost you markedly more time and money in gas driving to the venue to purchase tickets ahead of the concert date. Then ticketing agents come along and save you, possibly, hundreds of dollars when you factor in the cost of your time in driving to the venue and pass along a convenience fee of maybe 15% of WHAT IT WOULD COST YOU OTHERWISE TO GET TO THE BOX OFFICE AND BUY TICKETS and you complain about the fee. Ticketing fees are too high? In relation to what? They're pennies on the dollar in comparison to your only other option.
I also love your intelligent, erudite claim that printing and mailing tickets cost the ticketing agent "nothing... to perform such a service." O RLY? You're absolutely right that servers and software to handle credit card transactions, credit card fees, customer service, custom printers with the ability to print holograms, watermarks, and other things making counterfeiting harder and mailing out tickets cost nothing. NOTHING. Pure, 100% profit.
Lets just hope your post count never climbs above 2 because your comments are clearly never going to rise above the level of the useless and nonsensical ones presented here.
Hmm, maybe it's been discussed so much because it's a valid issue? It seems the only person so far who's fighting to the teeth for its practice is you. Do you somehow profit from it, friend?
If the manager doesn't have an interest or concern with this issue, he should know that he is losing business. Maybe when the venue is in decline, and people stop traveling for shows because of the added costs ON TOP of the already taxing price of travel and leisure events in this economy, he'll be concerned.
Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue, and judging by your childish and petty presentation of your argument, it wouldn't surprise me if you did based on your clearly low level of intellect, but your "15%" and "pennies on the dollar" is an extremely incorrect statement. The $17 surcharge compared to the cost of the other three items makes it a 34% markup.
No, in the "pre-internet days," people would get to the show earlier to purchase them, because generally, those from any distance wouldn't travel to get tickets early and there would still be limited access available the day of. Now, because of people who DON'T say anything about the issue of markup and excessive service fees, tickets WILL sell out, and they may not be available at the door by simply arriving early. For all your claims of "logical fallacies," you certainly seem less than capable of logic.
This isn't a debate on ticket prices. a $20 tickets is perfectly reasonable. A surcharge costly 34% of that isn't.
As for the costs of ticketing, WillCall doesn't ship. Shipping tickets is unnessicary. If someone will be attending the event, then they can pick them up, and that in itself costs the ticket distributor nothing. The computers, the ATM processing, ticket creation, those devices are there already. How do you think this website, or the business as a whole, is managed, presale processes aside? How do you think things are sold and monetary transactions are made AT the venue when physical cash isn't exchanged? No services charges of debit card fees for the customer there. Tickets EXIST and are sold without service charges in person, so how does printing tickets for WillCall cost ANY extra? It doesn't, you say? You're goddamn right it doesn't. And the ticket seller has very little "customer service" to speak of, believe me, I've tried.
It seems post count and intellect have little to do with eachother. Look at yours. I'm sure it's so high because the less time you spend thinking or deducing rational thought, the more you have for typing.
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Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue, and judging by your childish and petty presentation of your argument, it wouldn't surprise me if you did based on your clearly low level of intellect, but your "15%" and "pennies on the dollar" is an extremely incorrect statement. The $17 surcharge compared to the cost of the other three items makes it a 34% markup.
No, again, you're the one with a reading comprehension issue. I said compared to the cost of driving a considerable distance, he ticketing fee is around 15% and pennies on the dollar, NOT in comparison to the cost of a ticket. You live in WV, lets say for arguments sake 3 hours away. Assuming you make even a mere $15 an hour, at your hourly rate, it'd cost you almost $90 round trip plus probably around $30 in gas to get to the box office and buy tickets in advance. That's around $120 to get tickets in advance. INSTEAD, you pay around $15 for the fees on two tickets. Seems pretty reasonable considering your alternative.
No, in the "pre-internet days," people would get to the show earlier to purchase them, because generally, those from any distance wouldn't travel to get tickets early and there would still be limited access available the day of. Now, because of people who DON'T say anything about the issue of markup and excessive service fees, tickets WILL sell out, and they may not be available at the door by simply arriving early. For all your claims of "logical fallacies," you certainly seem less than capable of logic.
This is laughable. "Concerts never sold out pre-internet. There were always tickets available day-of for every concert in the 1980s. And it could be that way again... if only we organize a protest of ticketing agents on a venue's website!!"
This isn't a debate on ticket prices. a $20 tickets is perfectly reasonable. A surcharge costly 34% of that isn't.
Except it is reasonable. Comparing a CONVENIENCE fee to the cost of the ticket is extremely non sequitor. You should be comparing it to the level of convenience it affords you, which for someone living in WV, several hours from the box office, is considerable, and far in excess of the dollar amount you're charged as I've pointed out numerous times.
Shipping tickets is unnessicary. If someone will be attending the event, then they can pick them up, and that in itself costs the ticket distributor nothing.
You're right. No one could ever want their tickets in-hand in advance for any reason. You don't want the feature, so no one should have it. Gotcha.
The computers, the ATM processing, ticket creation, those devices are there already. How do you think this website, or the business as a whole, is managed, presale processes aside? How do you think things are sold and monetary transactions are made AT the venue when physical cash isn't exchanged? No services charges of debit card fees for the customer there. Tickets EXIST and are sold without service charges in person, so how does printing tickets for WillCall cost ANY extra? It doesn't, you say? You're goddamn right it doesn't. And the ticket seller has very little "customer service" to speak of, believe me, I've tried.
I can't even go into detail about how wrong this is. The box office (which Seth sells tickets at for a $1 fee in advance) is staffed and operated at a loss. Tickets.com is a completely separate entity. Their existance does cost them money. They have an infrastructure to provide people a service, and it does cost them money. Selling tickets costs tickets.com more money then not selling tickets. They have to not only recoup that, but make a profit. Just because you picked the ticket up at will call doesn't mean the infrastructure behind the ticketing cost nothing. The fact that you think otherwise tells me you're an idiot.
Now, I'm going to bed, but please continue talking out of your ass, we like laughing at imbeciles.
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Here are two recent threads where the club owner Seth weighs in on the issue
http://www.930.com/forum/index.php?topic=19739.0
http://www.930.com/forum/index.php?topic=19737.0
These are only the tip of the iceburg in terms of discussion over Ticket Surcharges on this forum.
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No, again, you're the one with a reading comprehension issue. I said compared to the cost of driving a considerable distance, he ticketing fee is around 15% and pennies on the dollar, NOT in comparison to the cost of a ticket. You live in WV, lets say for arguments sake 3 hours away. Assuming you make even a mere $15 an hour, at your hourly rate, it'd cost you almost $90 round trip plus probably around $30 in gas to get to the box office and buy tickets in advance. That's around $120 to get tickets in advance. INSTEAD, you pay around $15 for the fees on two tickets. Seems pretty reasonable considering your alternative.
I like how you just assume that ANYONE in their right mind is going to TAKE OF FUCKING WORK to do things. I don't know what ass-backwards way of life you come from, maybe the Amish or you were raised in slave labor, but the average person DOES have time off work, and CAN do things they need to do in that time without taking a pay hit to do it.
But these simantics aren't the point. The point is, no matter what "convenience" it is, it doesn't COST the venue that much to take your money and save your ticket at the box office as opposed to taking your money AT the box office. The only extra legwork is taking your name and checking your ID. That takes seconds, and this is obvious by how quickly people get through a line at WillCall.
This is laughable. "Concerts never sold out pre-internet. There were always tickets available day-of for every concert in the 1980s. And it could be that way again... if only we organize a protest of ticketing agents on a venue's website!!"
Fantastic job putting words in my mouth, but in the future, when blatantly making a person out to have said something they didn't, you probably shouldn't quote them, kiddo. It's clear that you don't have a logical response, so you resort to childish bullshit. Please, if you have nothing useful to add, step away from the computer. Fresh air might be good for your clearly deprived brain.
Except it is reasonable. Comparing a CONVENIENCE fee to the cost of the ticket is extremely non sequitor. You should be comparing it to the level of convenience it affords you, which for someone living in WV, several hours from the box office, is considerable, and far in excess of the dollar amount you're charged as I've pointed out numerous times.
You keep hammering in this same point, and it keeps getting re-stated, because it's INCORRECT. You have no other leg to stand on than persistence. I suppose, if an idiot says "cat" long enough when it's obviously a mouse, the other person will eventually say "sure, sure, it's a cat, now get the fuck out of my face." Excellent strategy for the weak-minded.
You're right. No one could ever want their tickets in-hand in advance for any reason. You don't want the feature, so no one should have it. Gotcha.
Want it? Maybe. Why, I don't really see the point, but want, sure. Whether they'd be willing to pay an added 34% of their ticket price to get it, given the option, I highly doubt. But people want lots of things, and when you've already paid for them, sure, why the hell not? Fuck, a 34% "service charge" should come with the kind of "service" a "service girl" provides. I'm assuming these don't.
I can't even go into detail about how wrong this is. The box office (which Seth sells tickets at for a $1 fee in advance) is staffed and operated at a loss. Tickets.com is a completely separate entity. Their existance does cost them money. They have an infrastructure to provide people a service, and it does cost them money. Selling tickets costs tickets.com more money then not selling tickets. They have to not only recoup that, but make a profit. Just because you picked the ticket up at will call doesn't mean the infrastructure behind the ticketing cost nothing. The fact that you think otherwise tells me you're an idiot.
It costs the VENUE nothing extra that selling tickets at the DOOR doesn't. THAT is my point. The fact that you choose to completely overlook that and change the intentions of my words proves that you have no logical argument and simply wish to be a mindless dickhead while at the same time "win" something.
Now, I'm going to bed, but please continue talking out of your ass, we like laughing at imbeciles.
I'm assume that "we" is just you, because you're the only person here who sees your view, acting like an illogical, argumentative child.
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Here are two recent threads where the club owner Seth weighs in on the issue
http://www.930.com/forum/index.php?topic=19739.0
http://www.930.com/forum/index.php?topic=19737.0
These are only the tip of the iceburg in terms of discussion over Ticket Surcharges on this forum.
I couldn't assume I am the first to take issue, it is a problem and I am sure many have voice concerns. I can't believe any business owner in their right mind who's concerned with their profit could possibly be willing to let customers leave because of this. I know he's lost anyone who would be interested in attending with me, unless we happen to travel into DC between now and then. Maybe when he starts to feel the hit, he'll change his mind.
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Who you trying to see?
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Gogol Bordello?
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If you don't want to go to the show because of the price, don't. Seth's just trying to keep his club awesome and have great bands continue to play there.
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if we made it all one price, and didn't break out service charges, wouldn't that make it LESS transparent?
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On one hand, yes service charges are a ripoff because surely it costs LESS to sell tickets over the Internet than it does to have a paid staff person sitting in a booth all day collecting money and handing them out.
On the other hand, prices throughout the economy are set according to what the market will bear. People may bitch and moan, but they pay the fees, and that's the only thing that matters from an economic perspective. For that reason, service charges will always be with us.
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There is no requirement to buy parking in advance, one can easily pay when arriving to the show at the lot. And should the lot be sold out there is on street parking available unlike at Nissan which gladly tacks on parking to every ticket.
There is a nifty feature in the FAQ forum, where one can find out from the 9:30 Staff what the status of tickets sales are. If it appears tickets will be available at the door, then the consumer needs to decide if it's worth the risk to try and buy at the door or paying the fees to ensure they have the tickets.
I'd be curious to find out percentage of shows sell out in advance of doors opening. It seems to me that other than the obvious instant sellouts, plenty of shows have tickets at the door. And at that point one has to decide if seeing Them Crooked Vultures, etc is worth paying the extra fees or not. Sitting at home grumbling is always an option.... Plus even at some sold out shows there are people desperately trying to selling extras.
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I think this hits to the root of the issue. Did you buy the tickets with the charges? Or did you opt to speak with your wallet and not purchase them?
If the manager doesn't have an interest or concern with this issue, he should know that he is losing business.
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if we made it all one price, and didn't break out service charges, wouldn't that make it LESS transparent?
Yes I am glad I get to see the large dick approaching from behind before taking it deep.
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Look, I agree to a certain extent that it would be nice if Ticketmaster, TicketFly or any of those sites published the full rates before you bought. Seem ticket price + convenience fee + shipping + etc. would be a nice feature up-front. But it's not like you're FORCED into those fees once you say OK...you do have the option of not purchasing once you see the total. Plus, do you people bitch when buying items at the store or online that they don't tell you taxes or shipping upfront? You lot act like once you add the ticket to your cart that you're stuck with hundreds of dollars of fees and no way to back out of it.
if we made it all one price, and didn't break out service charges, wouldn't that make it LESS transparent?
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if we made it all one price, and didn't break out service charges, wouldn't that make it LESS transparent?
Yes I am glad I get to see the large dick approaching from behind before taking it deep.
lol
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But if they were to add the cost of the fees into the base price, people would then complain that concert tickets in DC are higher than the rest of the country. Because LiveNation has never meet a service they didn't like.
And is the club going to have to sell tickets at the boxoffice at a discount, since you know that would be the next complaint.
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everything that the 930 club does wrong, the black cat does right.
they have reasonable service charges and they sell drinks that normal people can afford. they have the best nachos on earth. AND they switched tickets to a company with really low service charges.
ticketfly has shiny holograms on their printed tickets though. i like shiny things.
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Driveway reminded me of something... If it's been awhile since someone was at the club, be prepared not to find any bargins on beers :D. talk about killer service charges
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Beer bargains are across the street, at Duffy's.
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everything that the 930 club does wrong, the black cat does right.
they have reasonable service charges and they sell drinks that normal people can afford. they have the best nachos on earth. AND they switched tickets to a company with really low service charges.
ticketfly has shiny holograms on their printed tickets though. i like shiny things.
Right, but a lot of things BC does wrong, 9:30 does right - like having an amazing sound system and staff who are not complete jerks (unless you're a Disco Biscuits fan apparently ;) ). But I still choose the crappier venues most of the time because I can see a lot more shows at their more reasonable prices.
Oh, and TicketAlternative has shiny things on the back of their tickets, too but you have to go get your tix in advance of the show at the club (not online) if you want the shiny things ;D
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Oh, and p.s. mr_goodbomb - just ignore Julian. At least that's what the rest of us do....
Look kid. Don't get snippy with me. You're the one coming here and rehashing an argument for the five hundredth time with the same logical fallacies and inaccuracies. I love how every one of you who bitch about ticket charges think you're the first one to do it. No way, in your mind, could this have been discussed ad naseum, no... you're the one who's going to bring it to people's attention and get changes made.
Fact remains, Seth has heard this a trillion times and has said he does not care. He just changed ticketing agents (effective January 2010) and said reducing ticketing fees was not his motivation at all. You will not get them changed. Period, end debate.
And the fact remains, for you (and for most people) buying online for that convenience fee is your cheapest option. In the old pre-internet days, it would have cost you markedly more time and money in gas driving to the venue to purchase tickets ahead of the concert date. Then ticketing agents come along and save you, possibly, hundreds of dollars when you factor in the cost of your time in driving to the venue and pass along a convenience fee of maybe 15% of WHAT IT WOULD COST YOU OTHERWISE TO GET TO THE BOX OFFICE AND BUY TICKETS and you complain about the fee. Ticketing fees are too high? In relation to what? They're pennies on the dollar in comparison to your only other option.
I also love your intelligent, erudite claim that printing and mailing tickets cost the ticketing agent "nothing... to perform such a service." O RLY? You're absolutely right that servers and software to handle credit card transactions, credit card fees, customer service, custom printers with the ability to print holograms, watermarks, and other things making counterfeiting harder and mailing out tickets cost nothing. NOTHING. Pure, 100% profit.
Lets just hope your post count never climbs above 2 because your comments are clearly never going to rise above the level of the useless and nonsensical ones presented here.
Hmm, maybe it's been discussed so much because it's a valid issue? It seems the only person so far who's fighting to the teeth for its practice is you. Do you somehow profit from it, friend?
If the manager doesn't have an interest or concern with this issue, he should know that he is losing business. Maybe when the venue is in decline, and people stop traveling for shows because of the added costs ON TOP of the already taxing price of travel and leisure events in this economy, he'll be concerned.
Maybe you have a reading comprehension issue, and judging by your childish and petty presentation of your argument, it wouldn't surprise me if you did based on your clearly low level of intellect, but your "15%" and "pennies on the dollar" is an extremely incorrect statement. The $17 surcharge compared to the cost of the other three items makes it a 34% markup.
No, in the "pre-internet days," people would get to the show earlier to purchase them, because generally, those from any distance wouldn't travel to get tickets early and there would still be limited access available the day of. Now, because of people who DON'T say anything about the issue of markup and excessive service fees, tickets WILL sell out, and they may not be available at the door by simply arriving early. For all your claims of "logical fallacies," you certainly seem less than capable of logic.
This isn't a debate on ticket prices. a $20 tickets is perfectly reasonable. A surcharge costly 34% of that isn't.
As for the costs of ticketing, WillCall doesn't ship. Shipping tickets is unnessicary. If someone will be attending the event, then they can pick them up, and that in itself costs the ticket distributor nothing. The computers, the ATM processing, ticket creation, those devices are there already. How do you think this website, or the business as a whole, is managed, presale processes aside? How do you think things are sold and monetary transactions are made AT the venue when physical cash isn't exchanged? No services charges of debit card fees for the customer there. Tickets EXIST and are sold without service charges in person, so how does printing tickets for WillCall cost ANY extra? It doesn't, you say? You're goddamn right it doesn't. And the ticket seller has very little "customer service" to speak of, believe me, I've tried.
It seems post count and intellect have little to do with eachother. Look at yours. I'm sure it's so high because the less time you spend thinking or deducing rational thought, the more you have for typing.
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If some of us spent less time typing out long diatribes on internet message boards and more time on actually doing work while at work, we'd probably make more money, and high ticket fees wouldn't matter as much.
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everything that the 930 club does wrong, the black cat does right.
they have reasonable service charges and they sell drinks that normal people can afford. they have the best nachos on earth. AND they switched tickets to a company with really low service charges.
ticketfly has shiny holograms on their printed tickets though. i like shiny things.
Right, but a lot of things BC does wrong, 9:30 does right - like having an amazing sound system and staff who are not complete jerks (unless you're a Disco Biscuits fan apparently ;) ). But I still choose the crappier venues most of the time because I can see a lot more shows at their more reasonable prices.
I like most of the BC staff.
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If some of us spent less time typing out long diatribes on internet message boards and more time on actually doing work while at work, we'd probably make more money, and high ticket fees wouldn't matter as much.
Yes. This.
I would've said this to begin with but the entire thread would've gotta yanked if it came from me.
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sometimes, when i see that a patron is about to do something stupid that will result in them being politely asked to leave the club, i'll pull them aside and give them a friendly warning. some take the information i provide and make a better decision. those people get to enjoy the show they came to see. some get all worked up about it and end up making poor decisions. they end up out on the sidewalk, wishing they had chosen differently.
i recommend the first option.
just sayin'.
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have you ever had to put people in headlocks to get them out ;D
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Absolutely not Seth.
The cost of attending a show- of the ticket- is the TOTAL cost. What you, ticketfly, the artist decide to do with allocating the charges is of no interest to the patron. By the way there is no transparency in having a bunch of charges which we know not for what they go although we are not dumb enough to think they go for the cost of printing and delivering a ticket via first class mail. We are told they are "convenience charge" or something like that but how is that transparent when some of that goes back to the venue etc and no mention of this is even made?
Bottom line is the venues, the ticketmasters of the world exploit the fan who has nobody representing him.. its the law of the west..
But at some point the consumers may organize. that is only the way forward because if we're going to depend on the kindness and charity or good sense of the club owner's of the world we ain't going to go far.
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Aren't you too busy organizing boycotts of non-DC venues to organize a boycott of ticketing agents?
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If you don't want to go to the show because of the price, don't. Seth's just trying to keep his club awesome and have great bands continue to play there.
When Seth has no audience because of practices like this, or at least no audience outside of those right in the heart of DC, then he won't be able to "keep his club awesome," because he'll be broke.
On one hand, yes service charges are a ripoff because surely it costs LESS to sell tickets over the Internet than it does to have a paid staff person sitting in a booth all day collecting money and handing them out.
On the other hand, prices throughout the economy are set according to what the market will bear. People may bitch and moan, but they pay the fees, and that's the only thing that matters from an economic perspective. For that reason, service charges will always be with us.
How many of those "bitching and moaning" do you think went ahead and paid for the tickets anyway? Here's a little insight: I didn't. Nor did any of my friends who wanted to see this show.
I think this hits to the root of the issue. Did you buy the tickets with the charges? Or did you opt to speak with your wallet and not purchase them?
I didn't purchase them, no. But if I had said nothing, then no one would have known that a ticket, or two tickets, or 1000 tickets, weren't sold for a specific reason.
Plus, do you people bitch when buying items at the store or online that they don't tell you taxes or shipping upfront? You lot act like once you add the ticket to your cart that you're stuck with hundreds of dollars of fees and no way to back out of it.
No, I understand that shipping and (rarely, because there's a very small chance the place you're purchasing from will be in your state) taxes are part of the total, that total being the TOTAL AMOUNT I'll have to pay, not the total amount the seller claims they'll be making. I also know damn well that, if a seller ships me something that costs 10 dollars, and it costs them 2 dollars to ship it, but they charged me $22, they're not just making $10. They're making the entire sum that I paid minus the ACTUAL cost of shipping, so they've made $30 dollars but claimed it was a bargain because the "item's price" was only $10. Anyone can see through this sort of scheme, and I think very few people who shop online will pay excessive shipping anymore. They'll go someplace where the TOTAL THEY PAY, even if the item costs more but the shipping costs less, is lower. It's as simple as that.
If some of us spent less time typing out long diatribes on internet message boards and more time on actually doing work while at work, we'd probably make more money, and high ticket fees wouldn't matter as much.
I'm not sure who you're out to make a snide remark against here, but while my business is none of yours, I'm not missing out on any money by posting here. However, I would be if decided to quietly pay excessive surcharges.
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You've yet to mention who you're wanting to see. Perhaps that would change the entire argument.
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When Seth has no audience because of practices like this, or at least no audience outside of those right in the heart of DC, then he won't be able to "keep his club awesome," because he'll be broke.
So you didn't buy the tickets right?
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everything that the 930 club does wrong, the black cat does right.
they have reasonable service charges and they sell drinks that normal people can afford. they have the best nachos on earth. AND they switched tickets to a company with really low service charges.
ticketfly has shiny holograms on their printed tickets though. i like shiny things.
Right, but a lot of things BC does wrong, 9:30 does right - like having an amazing sound system and staff who are not complete jerks (unless you're a Disco Biscuits fan apparently ;) ). But I still choose the crappier venues most of the time because I can see a lot more shows at their more reasonable prices.
I don't know what you're talking about, BC has fine staff compared to 9:30.
Heres my take on service charges (and yeah, its probably been stated many times before): I dont mind paying $30 for a ticket thats advertised to be $30. I wish that the fees and charges were just included in the advertised price, so it wouldn't be $20 + $10 = 30. Seeing the charges added on like that is what hurts.
I understand its probably a better business move (I'm sure that 20 + 10 mentally looks smaller than 30, and that most people once they've started their checkout will just brush the small fees aside and deal with it), but if it was up to me, I'd rather have the fees included in the advertised price.
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Point #1: for every occasional person who is actually deterred from buying a ticket because of a service fee, there are probably 10 other people who'll buy that ticket.
In fact, the continued prevalence and succsess for scalping shows that the overall price point for tickets is still pretty low relative to what the market might bear, at least for the most in-demand shows. For shows that sell out quickly you could probably charge a couple of hundred bucks and still sell out (although it would mean an audience of exclusively douchebags).
Point #2: Just because you like the 930 is no reason to talk smack about the Black Cat staff. The ones I've met are all good people. The Cat's gotten a lot stricter over the years but with the number of kids that come out, combined with the increasingly fussy neighborhood that's no doubt eager to shut them down and install another high-end furniture boutique, they kinda have to be.
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You've yet to mention who you're wanting to see. Perhaps that would change the entire argument.
What difference does that make? A show is a show. But as if it'll make any different in the agruement, it's City and Colour, which sold out last year, I believe.
So you didn't buy the tickets right?
I did not, not did any of my friends who planned to go with me for my birthday, and for no other reason than the excess charges.
Point #1: for every occasional person who is actually deterred from buying a ticket because of a service fee, there are probably 10 other people who'll buy that ticket.
Isn't that a bit tasteless on a business standpoint, though? That's to say that, no matter how we treat customers, they'll still come. Eventually, that will shift. Customers only take so much shit.
Point #2: Just because you like the 930 is no reason to talk smack about the Black Cat staff. The ones I've met are all good people. The Cat's gotten a lot stricter over the years but with the number of kids that come out, combined with the increasingly fussy neighborhood that's no doubt eager to shut them down and install another high-end furniture boutique, they kinda have to be.
I've only been to the Black Cat once, and had no encounters with the staff. I haven't contributed to any of that discussion and dunno who started it, or why. My concern here is 9:30 and their charges.
The $30 VS $20+$10 is pointless. Any venue that charges a certain amount for online ticketing through a 3rd party isn't going to combine those charges because they aren't THEIR charges, and that added cost isn't going to them. Some percentage might, but most of it goes to the 3rd party ticket service, which they simply scarf down as profit. The key is handling these charges yourself with a simpler ticketing service or finding one that costs less. Or being a very poor business model and doing nothing.
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You've yet to mention who you're wanting to see. Perhaps that would change the entire argument.
What difference does that make? A show is a show. But as if it'll make any different in the agruement, it's City and Colour, which sold out last year, I believe.
It obviously makes no difference. Your refusal to say who it was was piquing my curiosity, though.
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Perhaps that would change the entire argument.
It obviously makes no difference.
I just didn't think it was pertinent. However, it could be said that, if it were another band, I'd just see them at another venue and give that same business to someone else. However, he's not in the area for any other dates and goes out of the country right after.
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Sarcasm, dawg. Of course it's not pertinent. Other venues would still charge service charges, so that wouldn't be an option either.
They're a part of concerts and ticket buying these days, and that's just how it is. Right or wrong, they aren't going away any time soon.
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Point #2: Just because you like the 930 is no reason to talk smack about the Black Cat staff. The ones I've met are all good people. The Cat's gotten a lot stricter over the years but with the number of kids that come out, combined with the increasingly fussy neighborhood that's no doubt eager to shut them down and install another high-end furniture boutique, they kinda have to be.
My point about the BC was in response to someone who said everything that 9:30 does wrong, BC does right. My point was that the things that BC does wrong, 9:30 does right. While the BC staff could never parallel the rudeness of staff I've witnessed at other area venues, when compared to the 9:30 club staff, I find them to be obtrusive and pushy, shoving their way through with a flashlight every 10 minutes, never saying excuse me if they're coming from behind and you can't see them anyway. That's just been my experience. But I'm sure they're all perfectly nice people...I'm not saying they're horrible people. I just think 9:30 trains their staff better and/or has better policies...except for the flip flops thing...
But this isn't a BC v. 9:30 debate...I was just providing a counterpoint to someone else's argument. 9:30's fees for online ticketing are ridiculous and I don't pay them unless I know the show will sell out immediately and I'm lucky enough to get a ticket online. Otherwise, I find the fees not worth the "convenience." I don't think Seth is losing any money by having people not buy tickets because of the fees. I'm pretty sure the club still has more sold out shows every year than any other venue in the country.
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So you didn't buy the tickets right?
I did not, not did any of my friends who planned to go with me for my birthday, and for no other reason than the excess charges.
Good. Then next time, just come to the forum and say "Hey Seth, I didn't buy tickets to a show because the service charges were too high."
You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't take him.
But if you got your friends to do it too, in harmony maybe, they may think they're both [queer] and they won't change their fee's either.
And if three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people coming to the forum telling Seth about not buying tickets because of the fees and walking out? They may think it's an organization.
And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day coming here telling Seth that they didn't buy tickets because fo the service charges and walking out? And friends they may thinks it's a movement.
And that's what it is, the "Seth I Didn't Buy Tickets Because the Service Charges Were Too High Movement."
You could have saved yourself a lot of grief and frustration. Arguing will get you nowhere. Organizing, well, now you're on to something....
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At the end of the day, Seth & the concert industry don't care at all about our opinions. They will only care when the money stops coming in.
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You've yet to mention who you're wanting to see. Perhaps that would change the entire argument.
What difference does that make? A show is a show. But as if it'll make any different in the agruement, it's City and Colour, which sold out last year, I believe.
Please excuse my ignorance. Is this one band called City And Colour or two bands, one band being City and the other Colour? If one band, I'll pretty much stay on the sidelines of this since I know not a thing about them. If it's two, I don't know a thing about City but definitely count me in your corner for Colour, whom I'd love to see. Somehow, I suspect my luck will fail again and it's just one band called City And Colour.
Sarcasm, dawg. Of course it's not pertinent. Other venues would still charge service charges, so that wouldn't be an option either.
They're a part of concerts and ticket buying these days, and that's just how it is. Right or wrong, they aren't going away any time soon.
This arguement is slightly flawed only for the fact that not all entities charge (or gauge) to the same degrees.
It's the same old story, those who have developed a strong business prescence will max out their costs as far as they can take them regardless of how it affects the consumer. The exception being that they will back down a bit only once their own bottom line is hit. Obviously, not a lot of that happening now in the DC area with a lot of government jobs still holding out.
I've also noticed that the biggest bitchers of those who bitch about the fees are often those who seem to have more money than the rest. To them, it's nothing to throw an extra $20 or so at something while everyone else tries to save face and quietly backs off and out of more and more shows. Again, those who have, will often gladly buy those tickets that the others decide they must forfeit because it's just not in their tighter and tighter budgets. The merchants don't care, nor do they necessarily know, who is actually buying all those tickets, as a ticket sale is a ticket sale regardless of who it was sold to. Bottom line: Nothing will change this until bigger numbers choose not to buy via big fees agencies.
For what it's worth, I don't put much stake in whether the total cost is shown up front or at the end only because, once the transaction is complete, it will still cost me exactly the same. I already know what a scam some of these agencies are running so if I must have a ticket and need to use their service, I expect to get screwed in the process. Shame is, I now see less and less shows because of them and many of these shows were not shows that have sold out... so everyone lost out on a piece of the action.
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Oh yeah, I know they don't all charge as much. But, for the most part, they all charge something.
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I would define transparency as when the charges are separated
if the ticket was just one price, and you couldn't see the breakdown, that would not be transparent, in my opinion
as far as taking it steps further, and then explaining who makes what out of those different parts of the ticket...I'm sorry, but that's just nobody's business, any more than if you laid out what everyone made at a store you bought something at
listen, when I answer with my "if you don't like it, don't go" type responses...this does not mean we don't appreciate everyone's business...in fact, it's just the opposite...we appreciate our customers that pay a lot of money to see shows, and try and provide them with the best experience possible
but, by all means, bring on the discussions!
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So you didn't buy the tickets right?
I did not, not did any of my friends who planned to go with me for my birthday, and for no other reason than the excess charges.
Good. Then next time, just come to the forum and say "Hey Seth, I didn't buy tickets to a show because the service charges were too high."
You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't take him.
But if you got your friends to do it too, in harmony maybe, they may think they're both [queer] and they won't change their fee's either.
And if three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people coming to the forum telling Seth about not buying tickets because of the fees and walking out? They may think it's an organization.
And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day coming here telling Seth that they didn't buy tickets because fo the service charges and walking out? And friends they may thinks it's a movement.
And that's what it is, the "Seth I Didn't Buy Tickets Because the Service Charges Were Too High Movement."
You could have saved yourself a lot of grief and frustration. Arguing will get you nowhere. Organizing, well, now you're on to something....
Alice's Restaurant replaces Food Food.
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Sarcasm, dawg. Of course it's not pertinent. Other venues would still charge service charges, so that wouldn't be an option either.
They're a part of concerts and ticket buying these days, and that's just how it is. Right or wrong, they aren't going away any time soon.
Other venues, however, won't charge THIS HIGH OF FEES. That's the whole point. Service charges are fucking obnoxious, but you're right, everyone charges them. However, they don't charge you for EACH ticket, AND the parking, AND the overall transaction. This case is just a worst case scenario.
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What other ticketing agencies are you referring to? Other than etix, I know of no major (and calling etix a major is a stretch) ticketing agency that doesn't charge per ticket with a boilerplate per transaction fee. Ticketfly does, tickets.com does, ticketmaster does, livenation does, and all at extremely comparable rates, if not higher in many cases. That's like 95% of the tickets sold in the country right there.
And you don't pay for parking thru 930 Club's ticketing company unless you want to buy a spot in the parking lot.
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You could have saved yourself a lot of grief and frustration. Arguing will get you nowhere. Organizing, well, now you're on to something....
This is organizing. I'm posting in a public place and making it well-known. I just haven't got my friends to do it because, well, they don't care enough to make an account and say anything. I can assure you, however, that there are several people who wished to attend who will not be doing so now because of those fees.
The only person I argued with was Julian, and I quickly realized that he's just a troll looking for attention.
Somehow, I suspect my luck will fail again and it's just one band called City And Colour.
One band called City and Colour.
Also, I think in unstable times, no one should be throwing away $17 for nothing, which is exactly what avoidable fees like this are. They don't go to the artist, they don't go to the venue, and they don't provide the customer with anything tangible.
I would define transparency as when the charges are separated
if the ticket was just one price, and you couldn't see the breakdown, that would not be transparent, in my opinion
as far as taking it steps further, and then explaining who makes what out of those different parts of the ticket...I'm sorry, but that's just nobody's business, any more than if you laid out what everyone made at a store you bought something at
listen, when I answer with my "if you don't like it, don't go" type responses...this does not mean we don't appreciate everyone's business...in fact, it's just the opposite...we appreciate our customers that pay a lot of money to see shows, and try and provide them with the best experience possible
but, by all means, bring on the discussions!
If you're not making anything extra off the service charges, why are you so unconcerned about how your customers feel about them?
If you are, then why not just make it one price?
Either way, those customers will stop paying "a lot of money to see shows" when you treat them like dogshit, bud. I'll be sure to treat your venue as such the next time I'm there. Thanks.
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Either way, those customers will stop paying "a lot of money to see shows" when you treat them like dogshit, bud. I'll be sure to treat your venue as such the next time I'm there. Thanks.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2217/2244766883_13ab7293bc.jpg)
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The only person I argued with was Julian, and I quickly realized that he's just a troll looking for attention.
I'm a respected, long-time member of this community. You're a guy who shows up childishly bitching and rehashing the same topic for the 500th time and threatening to treat the people who run this messageboard's venue "as shit," and I'm the troll? OK there guy.
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Instead of being so hell bent on organizing, why don't you ask a surcharge free question in the FAQ forum as to how tickets are selling. This way you can decided as to whether or not you can wait until the day of the show to get tickets at the boxoffice.
http://www.930.com/forum/index.php?board=2.0
But if you really want to organize, why not buy a bunch of tickets at once that way there is only one processing fee and not several.
Buying parking in advance is not mandatory, if the lot is full there is on street parking.
So continuing to complain and stay at home the night of the show grumbling or take a risk the show isn't going to sellout in advance. or pay the fees
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I'm a respected, long-time member of this community.
Oh, and p.s. mr_goodbomb - just ignore Julian. At least that's what the rest of us do....
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This is organizing. I'm posting in a public place and making it well-known. I just haven't got my friends to do it because, well, they don't care enough to make an account and say anything. I can assure you, however, that there are several people who wished to attend who will not be doing so now because of those fees.
No sir, this is ranting, not organizing, and it's been done hastily to make yourself feel better. Channel that energy away from a pissing contest with Julian and into converting your friends into being part of your organizing and have them recruit more and see what you accomplish.
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Let's talk service charges shall we....
In NYC the tickets are $20 in advance + service charges or $25 day of the show...
US $20.00 x 2
Price Details
Convenience Charge
US $4.70 x 2
There maybe a another charge on top of this...
In Florida
Ticket Price
US $20.00 x 2
Price Details
Convenience Charge
US $6.25 x 2
There are two other shows at LiveNation venues so expect similar if not higher fees...
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This is organizing. I'm posting in a public place and making it well-known.
You're not organizing, you're making a meaningless fuss on the internet. You win the Comic Book Guy award of the week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzyd91NFx-Y
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I would define transparency as when the charges are separated
if the ticket was just one price, and you couldn't see the breakdown, that would not be transparent, in my opinion
as far as taking it steps further, and then explaining who makes what out of those different parts of the ticket...I'm sorry, but that's just nobody's business, any more than if you laid out what everyone made at a store you bought something at
listen, when I answer with my "if you don't like it, don't go" type responses...this does not mean we don't appreciate everyone's business...in fact, it's just the opposite...we appreciate our customers that pay a lot of money to see shows, and try and provide them with the best experience possible
but, by all means, bring on the discussions!
Hey all respect Seth..Great venue...And I'm glad you interact with us.
But "transparency" is not telling someone we're charging you for providing you a printed copy of the ticket and the service of giving you that ticket when in reality we're charging you X so we can give a chunk back to the venue so they allow us to hold a gun to your head (i.e. its this way or the highway)...And while we can buy tickets at the window thats not applicable for the shows that sell out quickly...
Also you say its nobody's business any more than anyone who bought anything at the store? So you and ticket sellers are the store? So why do you break it down then? You can't break it down as if its separate services (ticket to event and ticket selling service) and then say they are the same and we have no right to ask what it is that we are paying for.. How is that transparent?
If thats "transparency" please give me something shady!
Really Seth why don't you just come out and admit you're ripping off your customers who are too complacent and disorganized to do anything about it?
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Anyone else wanna talk more about Alice's Restaurant and the fact that the Black Cat staff are typically nice to everyone; not just certain people for certain reasons? ;)
Both topics being more worthwhile than this one.
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You want 'transparency', Hutch? How's this?
What Seth and the agencies aren't telling you is that those 'convenience fees' are 'a natural DC show' fee. A tax, of sorts, for the 'convenience' of all of those 'natural DC shows' for you spoiled, inside the Beltway lot who believe that all artists are duty bound to play DC on every tour. For the rest of us, it's for the convenience of not having to drive inside the DC beltway to pick up our tickets prior to the show.
::)
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You want 'transparency', Hutch? How's this?
What Seth and the agencies aren't telling you is that those 'convenience fees' are 'a natural DC show' fee. A tax, of sorts, for the 'convenience' of all of those 'natural DC shows' for you spoiled, inside the Beltway lot who believe that all artists are duty bound to play DC on every tour. For the rest of us, it's for the convenience of not having to drive inside the DC beltway to pick up our tickets prior to the show.
::)
:D
Best post in the thread.
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POTW
You want 'transparency', Hutch? How's this?
What Seth and the agencies aren't telling you is that those 'convenience fees' are 'a natural DC show' fee. A tax, of sorts, for the 'convenience' of all of those 'natural DC shows' for you spoiled, inside the Beltway lot who believe that all artists are duty bound to play DC on every tour. For the rest of us, it's for the convenience of not having to drive inside the DC beltway to pick up our tickets prior to the show.
::)
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Thank you, gentlemen.
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is there some charge I don't know about being added AFTER you see them all and decide to purchase the tickets?
or are we just talking about the total that is presented that you don't like?
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I would define transparency as when the charges are separated
if the ticket was just one price, and you couldn't see the breakdown, that would not be transparent, in my opinion
as far as taking it steps further, and then explaining who makes what out of those different parts of the ticket...I'm sorry, but that's just nobody's business, any more than if you laid out what everyone made at a store you bought something at
listen, when I answer with my "if you don't like it, don't go" type responses...this does not mean we don't appreciate everyone's business...in fact, it's just the opposite...we appreciate our customers that pay a lot of money to see shows, and try and provide them with the best experience possible
but, by all means, bring on the discussions!
Hey all respect Seth..Great venue...And I'm glad you interact with us.
But "transparency" is not telling someone we're charging you for providing you a printed copy of the ticket and the service of giving you that ticket when in reality we're charging you X so we can give a chunk back to the venue so they allow us to hold a gun to your head (i.e. its this way or the highway)...And while we can buy tickets at the window thats not applicable for the shows that sell out quickly...
Also you say its nobody's business any more than anyone who bought anything at the store? So you and ticket sellers are the store? So why do you break it down then? You can't break it down as if its separate services (ticket to event and ticket selling service) and then say they are the same and we have no right to ask what it is that we are paying for.. How is that transparent?
If thats "transparency" please give me something shady!
Really Seth why don't you just come out and admit you're ripping off your customers who are too complacent and disorganized to do anything about it?
Who cares if part of the fee goes back to the venue/promoter, what difference does it make?
As Seth once brilliantly stated here, and I'm paraphrasing, "Do people go around questioning why Milk costs what it does?". Don't like the fees don't pay them, just don't be bitter when you learn after the fact how amazing the show which one missed over some fees...
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As someone who grew up on a dairy farm, I'm interested in how the dollars are distributed.
And to equate concert tickets with milk is pure silliness.
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As someone who grew up on a dairy farm, I'm interested in how the dollars are distributed.
And to equate concert tickets with milk is pure silliness.
agreed. i can live without milk.
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This is organizing. I'm posting in a public place and making it well-known. I just haven't got my friends to do it because, well, they don't care enough to make an account and say anything.
again, you're not organizing, you're a lone voice ranting (in a really whiny way, FYI). a good organizer would have gotten his friends to understand the injustice at hand and motivated them to do something as minimal as sign up for a free board and say "me too".
One band called City and Colour.
from wikipedia: "City and Colour is the alias for Juno Award-winning Canadian singer-songwriter Dallas Green, also known as the guitarist of the post-hardcore band Alexisonfire. He started playing under this alias in 2004. He plays acoustic and folk music, [1] and is often accompanied by a varying number of musicians."
100% guaranteed that this show didn't sell out in advance. you could have walked in to the show paying nothing more than face. don't want to drive down to DC and risk a sold-out show? ask in the FAQ if tickets will be available at the door. oh, wait, that might be construed as sending a message to the club... nevermind.
If you're not making anything extra off the service charges, why are you so unconcerned about how your customers feel about them?
as mentioned previously, the 930 club's surcharges are in line with other large venues. maybe you don't make it out to big-city shows that often? to prove it to yourself, please try ordering tickets from livenation, or ticketmaster, or another venue using ticketfly. you'll see that surcharges are similar. i'm not saying you don't have a right to protest, but you make it sound like it's something that only the 930 club does. are you ranting on livenation.com too? or do you think that the 930 owes you something?
Either way, those customers will stop paying "a lot of money to see shows" when you treat them like dogshit, bud.
do you seriously think that seth stays up late at night, dreaming up new & innovative ways to piss of his customers - because he hates them? do you think he's been in business this long by alienating people?
I'll be sure to treat your venue as such the next time I'm there. Thanks.
excellent idea. how exactly do you think this will play out?
CLUB STAFF: "excuse me boss, but someone has vandalized the club/caused damage/made a mess/etc. it's going to cost $ to fix it."
SETH (shaking a clenched fist at the sky): "dammit!!! i KNEW i should have lowered the surcharges!"
if anything, it'll make him look for additional revenue sources to cover the cost of damages. now where could he squeeze out a few more bucks...
like this ranting thread, treating the venue like shit will accomplish only one thing: make you feel better. it won't change the cause of your frustrations.
you're 14 years old, aren't you?
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I love the ridiculousness of the transparency argument. My local mom and pop store charges $20 for a whoziwhatzit. Then, when I get to the register, they charge me a sales tax mandated by a third party on top of it. My receipt breaks down the difference. I know as a smart person, that the state gives a percentage of the sales tax back to the mom and pop store to cover costs incidental with the collection of sales tax. HOWEVER, when I ask mom and pop how much they're getting back, they also tell me its none of my business.
Using the hutch and mr_goodbomb logic, I should refuse to pay sales tax and boycott mom and pop for being in collusion with the Commonwealth of Virginia. IT'S ALL SO OBVIOUS NOW!!
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As Seth once brilliantly stated here, and I'm paraphrasing, "Do people go around questioning why Milk costs what it does?". Don't like the fees don't pay them, just don't be bitter when you learn after the fact how amazing the show which one missed over some fees...
Yeah, so then I don't buy the milk. Just like I don't buy the tickets. We've already determined it doesn't make a hill of difference if I decide not to go. Why not just end it at "don't by the tickets" and not rub in our faces?
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listen, when I answer with my "if you don't like it, don't go" type responses...this does not mean we don't appreciate everyone's business...in fact, it's just the opposite...we appreciate our customers that pay a lot of money to see shows, and try and provide them with the best experience possible
but, by all means, bring on the discussions!
Thanks for stating this, it does help to know, Seth. Especially when I just can't afford even the minimum amount of show I'd like to see and to know others can.
While you're open to discussions, how about lowering the cost of a small bottle of water (currently $4) or getting a filter for the water in the pitcher? It tastes like crap.
Loons tease me all you want, you know it does too.
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If you're not making anything extra off the service charges, why are you so unconcerned about how your customers feel about them?
Finally got through my bonehead that people wouldn't go if they did offer at one price. It would cost too much. Only the ones who truly could afford would. But really, it's Marketing / ECON 101 right? By the time you are at the final pay button - how many people stop and don't buy? I'd think not many b/c you really want to see the show, justify it, put it on credit and eat ramen for a month to make up for the fees you weren't expecting. Not that I'm speaking personally about this mind-game money juggling justification...;)
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is there some charge I don't know about being added AFTER you see them all and decide to purchase the tickets?
or are we just talking about the total that is presented that you don't like?
Seth, I think most people would consider the fees to more transparent if all the fees and the total cost were detailed on the first web page before you decide to see if tickets are available rather than on the last page when you enter your credit card info and click the purchase button. On the first page, it says the cost is $20 (for example), but, when you get to the final page, the real cost is $30 (for example). We all know those conveniene fees are coming, but it can still be a bit of a shock, especially when it seems they cost more than usual.
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I like that idea
let me look into it
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As Seth once brilliantly stated here, and I'm paraphrasing, "Do people go around questioning why Milk costs what it does?". Don't like the fees don't pay them, just don't be bitter when you learn after the fact how amazing the show which one missed over some fees...
Yeah, so then I don't buy the milk. Just like I don't buy the tickets. We've already determined it doesn't make a hill of difference if I decide not to go. Why not just end it at "don't by the tickets" and not rub in our faces?
I apologize for the harshness of this statement and it's not a fate I would wish on anyone, unless one comes around stomping their feet like a spoiled child and not even willing to take the simplest of suggestions regarding checking the availability of tickets. Sorry again kosmo scrouge
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A little gingerbread man at the club just told me that City and Colour had a sold out show at the Black Cat and not the 9:30 club.
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As Seth once brilliantly stated here, and I'm paraphrasing, "Do people go around questioning why Milk costs what it does?". Don't like the fees don't pay them, just don't be bitter when you learn after the fact how amazing the show which one missed over some fees...
Yeah, so then I don't buy the milk. Just like I don't buy the tickets. We've already determined it doesn't make a hill of difference if I decide not to go. Why not just end it at "don't by the tickets" and not rub in our faces?
I apologize for the harshness of this statement and it's not a fate I would wish on anyone, unless one comes around stomping their feet like a spoiled child and not even willing to take the simplest of suggestions regarding checking the availability of tickets. Sorry again kosmo scrouge
No worries, Koz. My comment wasn't really directed at you. I realize you were speaking of the argument and paraphrasing someone else. You support concerts and patrons, I know that...Evil Santa on the other hand...must be lurking around some corner this year avoiding the forumite holiday party...;)
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The Magnetic Fields broke down all the charges for every upcoming show of their tour on their site. Check it. (http://houseoftomorrow.com/calendar.php)
That's unprecedented as far as I know.
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The Magnetic Fields broke down all the charges for every upcoming show of their tour on their site. Check it. (http://houseoftomorrow.com/calendar.php)
That's unprecedented as far as I know.
listing the surcharge and handling fees upfront is indeed nice, it's a little sad that such a simple move should be called "unprecedented".
what i was really hoping for was a break-down of what % of the face value does the band get, vs. promoters, venues, etc; what % of the surchages get kicked back to the venue... the real nitty-gritty of concert finance.
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>what i was really hoping for was a break-down of what % of the face value does the band get, vs. >promoters, venues, etc; what % of the surchages get kicked back to the venue... the real nitty-gritty of >concert finance.
and tell me what that would do for you
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a pie chart? :o
>what i was really hoping for was a break-down of what % of the face value does the band get, vs. >promoters, venues, etc; what % of the surchages get kicked back to the venue... the real nitty-gritty of >concert finance.
and tell me what that would do for you
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>what i was really hoping for was a break-down of what % of the face value does the band get, vs. >promoters, venues, etc; what % of the surchages get kicked back to the venue... the real nitty-gritty of >concert finance.
and tell me what that would do for you
I was wondering this too :D
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Admittedly, knowledge is a bad thing. Consumers have historically been better serve by ignorance...
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Thats awesome! Thats just what I want ahead of time. Dont really care who gets what, just would love to know before I start the process what its going to cost me at the end.
Might just have to become a member of BAM with all the amazing shows they get. Members dont pay any fees to get tix and usually get a few days before its open to the public to get seats. That Magnetic Fields show just got more tempting even if everyone I know is seeing them at The Town Hall.
The Magnetic Fields broke down all the charges for every upcoming show of their tour on their site. Check it. (http://houseoftomorrow.com/calendar.php)
That's unprecedented as far as I know.
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Didn't Bam sell out a while ago?
I kinda want to do one or both of the Town Hall shows. I imagine that being the perfect venue for them.
The Antony show I saw there sounded amazingly crisp.
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Admittedly, knowledge is a bad thing. Consumers have historically been better serve by ignorance...
Wow, sweets. Way to avoid the question.
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Oh maybe BAM did sell out. A friend had said it didn't. Town Hall is a nice venue and has great sound. They were great there last time I saw them.
Didn't Bam sell out a while ago?
I kinda want to do one or both of the Town Hall shows. I imagine that being the perfect venue for them.
The Antony show I saw there sounded amazingly crisp.
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what i was really hoping for was a break-down of what % of the face value does the band get, vs. promoters, venues, etc; what % of the surchages get kicked back to the venue... the real nitty-gritty of concert finance.
Why? If I go to McD's for a burger do I care what the cashier is getting paid, how much the manager makes, or what they pay in advertising? All I need to know is how much the burger is and then I decide if I think its worth that much.
This whole thing is very basic. If you don't want to pay the asking price for any product/service/whatever, then simply do not pay. The consumer sets the price in the free market system by making their purchasing decisions.
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These idiots need to just move over to ticketmaster already. What was the point of switching ticketing agencies if the fees are higher than the old one?
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These idiots need to just move over to ticketmaster already. What was the point of switching ticketing agencies if the fees are higher than the old one?
I think the fact that Seth testified in front of Congress about the proposed merger between TicketMaster and LiveNation might have something to do with that decision.
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These idiots need to just move over to ticketmaster already. What was the point of switching ticketing agencies if the fees are higher than the old one?
check your 'tude, bra
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again, you're not organizing, you're a lone voice ranting (in a really whiny way, FYI). a good organizer would have gotten his friends to understand the injustice at hand and motivated them to do something as minimal as sign up for a free board and say "me too".
Oh, give me a fucking break. Plenty of people here have come forward and agreed, and apparently, I'm not even close to being the first to complain about this situation. What difference does it make? If Seth doesn't give a fuck, then he doesn't give a fuck. Maybe when his venue is bankrupt, he will. Here's to hoping.
100% guaranteed that this show didn't sell out in advance. you could have walked in to the show paying nothing more than face. don't want to drive down to DC and risk a sold-out show? ask in the FAQ if tickets will be available at the door. oh, wait, that might be construed as sending a message to the club... nevermind.
Sold out last year, same artist, almost the same date. I dunno what your little Wikipedia adventure is supposed to prove.
as mentioned previously, the 930 club's surcharges are in line with other large venues. maybe you don't make it out to big-city shows that often? to prove it to yourself, please try ordering tickets from livenation, or ticketmaster, or another venue using ticketfly. you'll see that surcharges are similar. i'm not saying you don't have a right to protest, but you make it sound like it's something that only the 930 club does. are you ranting on livenation.com too? or do you think that the 930 owes you something?
I don't go to livenation, I don't go to other venues. I don't give a flying fuck what they charge, because I don't go there. I came here for a show, and the prices were goddamn ridiculous. It's that simple.
do you seriously think that seth stays up late at night, dreaming up new & innovative ways to piss of his customers - because he hates them? do you think he's been in business this long by alienating people?
No, I think he doesn't care. There's a big difference between malevolence and apathy, but when you are charging people for a SERVICE, apathy for their needs is unacceptable.
you're 14 years old, aren't you?
Hmm, well, judging from your illogical responses and half-assed remarks, I could have assumed the very same.
Honestly, charge whatever you want. I've made myself clear, as have many others, on the topic, and have expressed my feelings on the matter repeatedly. There's not much that can be done if the management doesn't care for what their customers think. I've been going to this venue for almost 10 years, so being a "paying customer" who gives you "lots of money," as you so put it, has never been a question. I won't be visiting this venue, or this forum, any longer. It's quite apparent that this topic, and the issue it presses on, have been covered repeatedly, and yet those responsible have no concern for it. I can sit an argue with various anonymous people who have no control over the issue for as long as I want, but it doesn't make a difference. It's the management who matters, and clearly, the management in question has no care for the people who've put them where they are. Good luck in the future, with these kinds of practices and by treating your potential customers this way, you're DEFINITELY going to need a LOT of it.
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City and Colour sold out the slightly-bigger-than-half-the-size-of-930 Black Cat last January. William Elliott Whitmore opened. I was at 930 for a different show that night and remember remarking to a staffer that "I should've went to William Elliott Whitmore instead of this" (in reference to the boring show that was there that night) or something to that effect.
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well you're just a pooh-pooh head Mr Goodbomb
hmmpphh
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Lots more words and yet not the simpliest of questions in the FAQ forum.....
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Mr. Goodbomb is a douche. And my guess is he will neither stop posting here (although he'll change his user name) nor will he stop buying tickets to shows.
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*BUMP*
I don't know if anyone else has noticed/mentioned, but it seems that TM could be taking some thought into what we have said.
After looking up some AC/DC tourdates (don't ask why, it's not for me), I came across this. I was just checking to see how much they were, and the page showed the grand total with fees included - kinda what we've been asking Seth to do.
It showed this:
$104.40 ($89.50 ticket + $14.90 fees)
here's the link for it: http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/070043087E5852CE?artistid=1170951&majorcatid=10001&minorcatid=200
Not every show on TM appears like this, but I think its kinda cool that they now give you the grand total before hand.
Just thought I'd mention it. Maybe the rest of their shows are going to be like that?
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*BUMP*
I don't know if anyone else has noticed/mentioned, but it seems that TM could be taking some thought into what we have said.
After looking up some AC/DC tourdates (don't ask why, it's not for me), I came across this. I was just checking to see how much they were, and the page showed the grand total with fees included - kinda what we've been asking Seth to do.
It showed this:
$104.40 ($89.50 ticket + $14.90 fees)
here's the link for it: http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/070043087E5852CE?artistid=1170951&majorcatid=10001&minorcatid=200
Not every show on TM appears like this, but I think its kinda cool that they now give you the grand total before hand.
Just thought I'd mention it. Maybe the rest of their shows are going to be like that?
I was looking at muse tix in bmore today and noticed the same thing. Fees were all outlined for you on the order page before you purchased.
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So the show that spawned this thread occurs thur, wonder if surcharge free tickets will still be available at the box office....
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Of course they will.
Which will render this thread a giant waste of bandwidth.
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Of course they will.
Which will render this thread a giant waste of bandwidth.
Best thing I've heard in 2010....
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Of course they will.
Which will render this thread a giant waste of bandwidth.
By reading your post too quick, thus misreading what you wrote, it caused me to coin a new term for such threads: BITCHWIDTH
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you're on a frikken roll today, jag!
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EPIC. (http://www.930.com/forum/index.php?topic=19941.msg296803;boardseen#new)
The absolute insouciance with which Eddie posts the answer to a question we all know we were spying is truly POTW material.
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Wow it took 22 words to ask the question, yet hundreds were wasted "taking a stand"... I have a new favorite forumite, lets hope we get a review of the show...
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Mr_Goodfail
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I have a new favorite forumite, lets hope we get a review of the show...
Let's not get crazy.
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$20.00 x 1 $4.75 x 1
$4.00
$28.75
No thanks. looks like i'll be paying my 'service fee' and 'processing charge' to the green line later today.
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$20.00 x 1 $4.75 x 1
$4.00
$28.75
No thanks. looks like i'll be paying my 'service fee' and 'processing charge' to the green line later today.
Great! Looks like you made a decision on all your own! What a big boy/girl!
Now hopefully, in time, this will become such a commonplace occurrence that you don't feel the need to inform us all of it!
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$20.00 x 1 $4.75 x 1
$4.00
$28.75
No thanks. looks like i'll be paying my 'service fee' and 'processing charge' to the green line later today.
44% in fees, absolutely disgusting
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Against my better judgement:
Fees totaled $8.75. How much gas money and time would you be out to drive to the venue for tickets, including time you'd need to hang out outside of the ticket agency to be first in line for tickets?
$20.00 x 1 $4.75 x 1
$4.00
$28.75
No thanks. looks like i'll be paying my 'service fee' and 'processing charge' to the green line later today.
44% in fees, absolutely disgusting
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go ahead and drink their koolaid, having to pay a 44% tax in order to buy something is absolutely absurd, what a joke
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go ahead and drink their koolaid, having to pay a 44% tax in order to buy something is absolutely absurd, what a joke
As noted above - there is no "having to pay" the markup in order to buy this ticket. You can go to the club and buy it for much less. However, if you want to buy the ticket within a matter of minutes, without ever leaving your home and (potentially) have it delivered to your doorstep - that'll cost you $8.75.
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If this was about ticketmaster, people would be outraged at having to pay 44% markup. The 9:30 Club and their Mom & Pop ticket provider can do no wrong though.
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go ahead and drink their koolaid, having to pay a 44% tax in order to buy something is absolutely absurd, what a joke
As noted above - there is no "having to pay" the markup in order to buy this ticket. You can go to the club and buy it for much less. However, if you want to buy the ticket within a matter of minutes, without ever leaving your home and (potentially) have it delivered to your doorstep - that'll cost you $8.75.
Given that many shows sell out ultra quick the idea that you can go get them at the box is questionable.
However, for many shows if you want to get a ticket at all- before the scalpers get them all and hawk them- that'll cost you $8.75.
What some people here seem unable to comprehend- and they are the same people celebrating the forthcoming arrival of the $10 beer- is that there is such a thing as anti-gouging practices/rules/laws/regulations/norms... The cost of the service has to bear some modicum of relation to the cost of actually providing the service....
The concert ticket itself can cost anything but things like water at a show, even alcohol, coat check, cost of parking, ticket delivery service should not be subject to indiscriminate gouging
Moreover, when people say "that'll cost you $8.75" they are in fact teling a LIE because the $8.75 does not go entirely to the ticket printing/delivery company but partly comes back to the venue.. So you are in effect paying some of that $8.75 back to the venue and it has no relation whatsoever to the service itself.. In essence, the consumer is paying a licensing fee or "right to provide service" fee for the provider to pay to the venue for the right to ripoff the venue's customers..
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If this was about ticketmaster, people would be outraged at having to pay 44% markup. The 9:30 Club and their Mom & Pop ticket provider can do no wrong though.
wrong. ticketmaster DOES charge the same types of fees (look up a $20 ticket on TM and see how much that will cost you). argument FAIL.
folks seem to forget that $20 = cost of the ticket, and of the ticket ONLY. delivery, handling, etc. is extra. you decide how that ticket gets in your hands. go to the club = less money, more time. online = faster, easier, more expensive.
i wonder if the venues simply charged $28 "face" for the ticket and included delivery, if that would made you happier. cool, less choice.
or if the venues dropped online ticketing, and the only way to get a ticket was at the box office... just like 20 years ago. yeah, that would be great too.
However, for many shows if you want to get a ticket at all- before the scalpers get them all and hawk them- that'll cost you $8.75.
vs. having to line up for 12 hours, overnight, to get tickets in the good ol' days. pick your poison. my point here is that for high-demand shows, there is always a premium to get a ticket.
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If this was about ticketmaster, people would be outraged at having to pay 44% markup. The 9:30 Club and their Mom & Pop ticket provider can do no wrong though.
wrong. ticketmaster DOES charge the same types of fees (look up a $20 ticket on TM and see how much that will cost you). argument FAIL.
folks seem to forget that $20 = cost of the ticket, and of the ticket ONLY. delivery, handling, etc. is extra. you decide how that ticket gets in your hands. go to the club = less money, more time. online = faster, easier, more expensive.
i wonder if the venues simply charged $28 "face" for the ticket and included delivery, if that would made you happier. cool, less choice.
or if the venues dropped online ticketing, and the only way to get a ticket was at the box office... just like 20 years ago. yeah, that would be great too.
However, for many shows if you want to get a ticket at all- before the scalpers get them all and hawk them- that'll cost you $8.75.
vs. having to line up for 12 hours, overnight, to get tickets in the good ol' days. pick your poison. my point here is that for high-demand shows, there is always a premium to get a ticket.
No one is questioning the idea that there should be a ticket charge or a charge for delivery/printing of tickets.
What is being questioned is the AMOUNT of that charge. When its 44% its gouging. When it costs more to provide the service depending on the price of the ticket- when we know providing the service costs the same- its simply untenable. When every year it goes up- bearing no relation to the increase of providing other goods and services- its gouging.
Really, don't you have anything better to do than defend the right of a business to rip you off?
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$20.00 x 1 $4.75 x 1
$4.00
$28.75
No thanks. looks like i'll be paying my 'service fee' and 'processing charge' to the green line later today.
Great! Looks like you made a decision on all your own! What a big boy/girl!
Now hopefully, in time, this will become such a commonplace occurrence that you don't feel the need to inform us all of it!
nah, I'll just tell you since you care so much.
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Honestly, I don't even know what show we're talking about or who the broker was. But again...if you don't like the charge, don't pay it. It's not a necessity we're talking about here. It's a fucking concert ticket.
If this was about ticketmaster, people would be outraged at having to pay 44% markup. The 9:30 Club and their Mom & Pop ticket provider can do no wrong though.
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Nada Surf?
$20.00 x 1 $4.75 x 1
$4.00
$28.75
No thanks. looks like i'll be paying my 'service fee' and 'processing charge' to the green line later today.
Great! Looks like you made a decision on all your own! What a big boy/girl!
Now hopefully, in time, this will become such a commonplace occurrence that you don't feel the need to inform us all of it!
nah, I'll just tell you since you care so much.
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yes sir. nada surf.
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No one is questioning the idea that there should be a ticket charge or a charge for delivery/printing of tickets.
What is being questioned is the AMOUNT of that charge. When its 44% its gouging.
What no ticket fee imbecile zealot has ever been able to answer me is why do you guys always frame the argument about fees vs. ticket cost (i.e. the 44% argument here), when in fact, the ticketing agents fee should have NOTHING to do with the ticket cost, but rather be in relation to the convenience it provides (in this case $8.75 vs. the costof your time and gas to drive to the venue and buy it at the box office)?
People just keep hammering the percentage vs ticket face value which is absolute non-sequitor trying to avoid the fact that compared to what you're getting for your $8.75, it's quite reasonable for most people.
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i will buy mine on monday at box office, i don't think it will sell out quick. I mean, they're no Vampire Weekend. I can buy one for you if you want if you just need one and you can pay me later.
yes sir. nada surf.
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So just out of curiosity - how is it that ticketweb service charges are always quite a bit lower?? (im quite sure theyre now owned by ticketmaster). The only difference I noticed from them is they now charge $.25 to mail tix. My Of Montreal ticket ($30) only comes with a $6.35 service fee. Not too bad (im certainly willing to pay 20% to not have to go to the venue).
It seems to me that ticketweb and some other one that Le Poisson Rouge uses (i think brown paper tickets/bag??) are by far the cheapest when it comes to service fees. I wish more places used ticketweb. :(
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AND TicketAlternative and even other venues that ticket through ticketfly have lower charges.
The answer is...Seth decides...
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ticketfly for the Knitting Factory - Brooklyn
$20.00 x 1 $4.50 x 1
No Charge
No Charge
$24.50
Apparently a stump of paper costs twice as much in dc than new york. who knew.
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(double post deleted)
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So just out of curiosity - how is it that ticketweb service charges are always quite a bit lower??
maybe they offer lower levels of service? have less servers = less able to handle a surge? spend less on advertising? their tickets aren't as shiny?
even other venues that ticket through ticketfly have lower charges.
i poked around TF, evidence didn't really bear this out - some were cheaper, some were the same (one that was cheaper had a 2-drink minimum, sooooo...)
something that i feel is a valid complaint is the fact that service charges rise as the ticket price rises:
thievery:
Ticket $40.00 x 1
Service Fee $6.50 x 1
Order Processing $4.00
Total Charge $50.50
st vincent:
Ticket $15.00 x 1
Service Fee $4.75 x 1
Order Processing $4.00
Total Charge $23.75
it doesn't cost any more to print & ship one ticket over the other... seems to me that the price should be constant. only argument in favor of this that i've come up with is the actual cost is somewhere in the middle, and the expensive tickets are somewhat subsidizing the cheap one (although a more likely explanation is that they wanna squeeze a little more out of those who are already willing to pay a lot for a ticket).
ticketfly for the Knitting Factory - Brooklyn
$20.00 x 1 $4.50 x 1
No Charge
No Charge
$24.50
Apparently a stump of paper costs twice as much in dc than new york. who knew.
shows at the knitting factory are will-call only, so i'd expect lower fees - nothing to print or ship. nice try, tho.
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oh, i didn't notice that. makes sense i suppose.
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shows at the knitting factory are will-call only, so i'd expect lower fees - nothing to print or ship. nice try, tho.
fees are the same at the 9:30 club regardless of whether you pick up at will call or have your tickets mailed to you. it's always been that way, and it has always not made sense. The $4 "order processing" fee takes the place of a charge for mailing, but you pay it regardless of whether the tickets are mailed to you or not.